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Post by 911wacker on Sept 22, 2006 20:38:07 GMT -5
The fire service is evolving. Firefighters should too. ding...ding...ding...ding....What do we have for him johny. ;D This is the same battle thats been going on for years, young guys want to change, old guys are happy with nothing changing. Figure out a way to get from A to B without resistance and you'll be a wealthy man.
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Post by speedman93 on Sept 22, 2006 21:51:49 GMT -5
well, i can,t believe it took this long for the subject to come up. when i first joined the fire service in 1992 my first dept was 48 in bucks county i was allowed to ride but had to take the first ff1 class offered at bucks county fire school. if you did not take the first class your gear was pulled until you did. it did not take long to find out who wanted to be a firemen and who was there to drink coffee and smoke cigarettes and make the company look bad on calls. Now with that being said there are only a few people if any in my dept that i would risk my life with in side a building. I am glad to see some muteral aid come in from towanda, north towanda and franklindale. i may not know these guy well but i know that at least they have some training.
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Post by fireman31 on Sept 23, 2006 9:10:04 GMT -5
some of you folks should have joined us @ ulster for the legal aspects of fire service then you would realize the well documented in house training will stand up in court, not to say that this documentation is better but it is not worthless. yes practice absolutely does help your members get better and i do encourage that every one in my dept. that can take up coming classes do so to better help themselves and the dept.. this legal aspects class is a real impressive class with a lot of info. that absolutely every dept. in Bradford county should have before they discus legalities of any thing so they have some true knowledge of the legality of it.
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Post by 2Truck on Sept 23, 2006 10:59:46 GMT -5
For slower departments that run few calls a month or even a year it can sometimes be hard to keep people interested in the fire service. There are thousands of places that you can go and pay your $5 and get voted in as a member one night and then be inside a burning building the next. Who is to blame for this injustice? The fire chief, the individual or even on a higher level the PA Fire Commissioner? Pennsylvania is one of the worst states to be a firefighter in from a safety stand point. We lead the nation in LODD's almost every year. And as with most LODD's it usually comes back to some lack of training, a deviation from company policy or a health aspect. At that point who is to blame for the LODD? At some point everyone can be held liable for what occurred.
Training and policies are there for a reason. Good....bad.... which ever they may be, they were created to try and protect all of us and try and make sure that we go home after a call. I will almost guarantee you that you will never see a minimum training standard set forth by the State Fire Commissioner due to the fact of the good ole' boys that will cry and scream that they do not have the time to take the training and comply. As a fire officer would you rather tell someone that they can't be a firefighter or have to go and give a eulogy at their funeral? That decision should be pretty simple. Unfortunately as a state we can not even keep our instructors from being killed while conducting "controlled" training. Until people get off their asses and realize that this is a dangerous business and that you can not just walk in off the street and do this job we are going to continue to kill firefighters every year!
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Post by chief322 on Sept 23, 2006 14:18:02 GMT -5
We must remember that all that has been stated, and asked for has been MINIMUM standards. No one has asked that every individual be the best or the most certified, but have the minimum. I think that the minimum, as stated through these posts, are not conducive to operations.
I have not seen one post that lists building construction or fire behavior as a pre-requisite. To often I have seen newbies or FNG's that have all the attack courses and when you tell them they cannot enter an advanced fire in a balloon construction frame structure, they look at you like you are stupid (stupid is as stupid does). How many of you all can actually tell me, without researching, when a floor will drop in a baloon construction bldg. under fire conditions. How many can tell me at what point or temp. that a gussett plate fails. How many check the thickness of a roof as you're first priority as an OV team?
The point I am trying to make here is that minimum training should be required for all. Until we all, as a state, agree with what that should be, this will never happen. Youngsters want this to be agressive attack, which is very admirable. Elders want it to be more towards experienced based tactics. It is a fine line, but one that should be addressed.
Tim
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Post by PSPFIREMARSHAL on Sept 23, 2006 17:14:14 GMT -5
The bottom line on this topic is how much initiative does a person have to be the best they can be. When I first started in this business in Waverly, I took the initiative to find training and to attend the same. I went as far as Vestal, Owego and the sorts. No Officer or anyone else had to hold my hand to make sure I got trained. Even this spring I traveled to Horseheads for Incident Safety Officer and Hazmat Ops. I even offered that if anyone was interested they could ride up with me. You know how many people took me up on the offer? I'll give you one guess - 0. I have little sympathy for those individuals that want to be firefighters and want to be truck drivers and want to be interior firefighters, but yet won't take the time or make the time to get trained. My answer to that is oh well, then sit on the sidelines. It is not a big secret where to look to find training these days. I also sent out a post several weeks ago asking if anyone would be interested in state training during the day so people that work evenings could also have an opportunity to get trained. Once again do you know how many responses I got - 0 Why should it be up to the officers to force your guys to get trained? All an Officer has to do is make sure training is available for the guys to take. If they decide not to take the training, no one can force them too. I can speak from an Officer and an Instructor standpoint. I have taught many classes and have set up many classes for my department and we are lucky to get the minimum number of people to run it. I know the people we go on mutual aid with and who respond for mutual aid for us. I would say the good majority of them are great guys and well trained. Many of our departments are FF1 trained and have a wealth of experience. We maybe lucky to have the type of response we do. As an Officer, I know my guys and I know what kind of training they have. If they haven't been trained they are not going to get actively involved , period. Should a minimum standard be set countywide? I don't know, but if one was everyone would be on the same page, even in a mutual aid situation. Should this be where training ends? No. Nothing will ever change unless the people in this business get of their rear end take some initiative!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by 911wacker on Sept 23, 2006 22:07:16 GMT -5
Nothing will ever change unless the people in this business get of their rear end take some initiative!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe the county association can get together and begin to lobby with others in the state to bring change? Just a thought!
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Post by 2Truck on Sept 24, 2006 6:04:30 GMT -5
Nothing will ever change unless the people in this business get of their rear end take some initiative!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe the county association can get together and begin to lobby with others in the state to bring change? Just a thought! Don't hold your breath..................
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