|
Post by flamethrower on Mar 28, 2006 21:57:41 GMT -5
What is your opinion on this one, should volunteer firefighters have to drive to the station when responding to an alarm. Please give some details supporting your opinion either way on this one.
|
|
|
Post by Robert Repasky on Mar 29, 2006 8:57:57 GMT -5
NO, they could always walk if they prefer......
|
|
|
Post by Medic12 on Mar 29, 2006 9:16:18 GMT -5
I feel that unless you have to drive directly past the scene or are coming into the game late, you should have to go to the station, get your gear, get on a piece of fire apparatus and then go to the scene. I've seen this before where wackers have driven to the scene ahead of fire apparatus and blocked the entrance or road so that the apparatus couldn't make it close to the actual scene.
I feel the only people who should go to the scene is a chief officer, or a line officer if a chief isn't around. What good is a firefighter with just his/her TOG going to do being on scene before the apparatus?
|
|
|
Post by 921batt on Mar 29, 2006 10:43:01 GMT -5
I am in favor of reporting to the station. I did vote for the driving by the scene option though because of the reference to every time, with a few stipulations of course.
A word of caution here: Don't try to beat the rigs to the scene to become a hero! Our job is to respond as quickly and safely to the scene, provide adequite protection to our members, mitigate the circumstance and return safely to whatever it is that we are returning to.
We in the fire service must put our safety ahead of anything else. If we fail to adhere to this principal we become a part of the problem and not the solution. Read the L.O.D.D. statistics and see how many of our brothers were KILLED while responding in thier personal vehicles. Then ask yourself what good am I without the tools I need to provide the service needed. You are gonna look awefull helpless standing there with your thumb deeply recessed in your anal orfice. We all want to be the hero but along with being the hero I sure do want to be able to read about it in the paper the next day. I don't want other people to be reading it on my tombstone! We all want to go home after the job is over.
THINK!
|
|
|
Post by Medic13 on Mar 29, 2006 15:24:29 GMT -5
I believe the same individual started this same thread on 2/25, but I suppose it's not a bad thing to pound into people's heads. I agree with what has already been said. To add, also keep in mind at MVA's that the ambulance(s) don't just have to get in, they have to get out. I can't count how many times I've been parked in by an endless stream of POV's, just to see the owners standing around with their thumbs up their...
|
|
|
Post by herrick3 on Mar 29, 2006 17:07:57 GMT -5
Walk to the station? Hey! I resemble that remark! Of course, I could almost hit the station with a stone if I threw it hard enough. Anyway, I think the question was "should volunteer firefighters have to drive to the station when responding to an alarm?" Well if they didn't, how would the apparatus get to the scene? I know we don't have any paid members in our dept. My answer would be yes, unless you have to pass by the scene.
|
|
24wacker1
Full Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 77
|
Post by 24wacker1 on Mar 29, 2006 17:16:13 GMT -5
I also have to agree with everything that's been said. On mutual aid calls, I even enjoy seeing the chief officers arriving in apparatus. This shows that even the chief officers are diciplined enough to get the trucks out the door first. My own opinion is that you don't really need three or even four chiefs responding to the scene in their pov when you already have chief officers from the primary company responding to the scene if not already on scene. However, this is only MY opinion. Some of the back country roads (Athens Township for example) are easily clogged off by just a couple of povs. And in 90% of those circumstances you are probably going to need a tanker shuttle. Having personal vehicles lined down a narrow dirt road makes it very difficult for the tanker drivers as well as unsafe. There is my two cents if it's really worth that much. ;D
|
|
|
Post by 911wacker on Mar 29, 2006 20:42:33 GMT -5
We in the fire service must put our safety ahead of anything else. If we fail to adhere to this principal we become a part of the problem and not the solution. Read the L.O.D.D. statistics and see how many of our brothers were KILLED while responding in thier personal vehicles. Then ask yourself what good am I without the tools I need to provide the service needed. You are gonna look awefull helpless standing there with your thumb deeply recessed in your anal orfice. Well siad brother!! But this I must say is a problem in some area's and I don't see why it hasn't been a hotter topic sooner. We have all been to the scenes where tanker operations or ambulance egress was hindered due to all the wacker vehicles on scene. I also very much like the idea of mutual aide officers riding apparatus to the scene too. ;D
|
|
|
Post by chief322 on Mar 30, 2006 5:51:32 GMT -5
RIDE THE RIG!
Nothing pissed me off more as a command officer then when a firefighter would come up to me in just TOG's, with no tool or BA and ask for an assignment. Ususally I would assign them street sign protection until his needed "resources" arrived.
One of my other departments goes one step further and it works extremely well. They assign gear to the gear lockers in station. It can only be removed from station for calls, training, or when a piece is on the air. The only people assigned gear outside the station were the CFO's (separate set for their assigned chiefs cars).
The chiefs responded to the scene within district and within their individually assigned areas of the first due (each chief had a set number of areas within first due) and the other two would repond to station. As far as calls outside first due, then all chiefs respond to station and if it is a single piece call, then the duty officer (monthly) would take it in, leaving the other two chiefs back in first due district.
This arrangement works very well, but takes a huge amount of discipline by the department. Rigs couldn't leave without minimum manning (4). If you missed a rig in the first due, you could take your gear from station and respond to the scene, but only on working structural calls. On mutual aid, the rigs left full crew (6-8) or scratched the call. Driving POV to a mutual aid call to engage in firefighting efforts resulted in disiplinary action. Our form was to pull gear for a stated amount of time. No gear, no ride rigs, no fight fire.
When you are running over 700 alarms annually and have a high profile piece of apparatus (tower) you usually catch a good share of fire. Having to sit in the lounge and hear the stories because you are being disciplined sucks and makes you rethink you actions.
Tim
|
|
|
Post by flamethrower on Mar 30, 2006 19:40:51 GMT -5
This arrangement works very well, but takes a huge amount of discipline by the department. Rigs couldn't leave without minimum manning (4). If you missed a rig in the first due, you could take your gear from station and respond to the scene, but only on working structural calls. On mutual aid, the rigs left full crew (6-8) or scratched the call. Driving POV to a mutual aid call to engage in firefighting efforts resulted in disiplinary action. Our form was to pull gear for a stated amount of time. No gear, no ride rigs, no fight fire. While we are on the subject, why not take it all the way and mandate minimum staffing levels and riding assignments too. This seems to work for every department that I have ever talked to that does it and they all like it very well. Why don't we just get with the program and do it better? Shouldn't it be our goal to become more efficient and effective at our jobs?
|
|
|
Post by herrick3 on Mar 30, 2006 22:05:55 GMT -5
How many of your smaller [glow=red,2,300]volunteer [/glow]fire depts. would be able to mandate anything of that nature? Maybe I'm missing something there, but it's hard enough to get volunteers to begin with. I live right next to the station, so I'm usually the first one there, if I'm home. I'm gonna contradict my earlier statement in a way. If I get o the hall and I have enough guys there to get the fleet rolling, and it's gonna take you longer to get to the hall than it is to the scene, then go to the scene. Why have a piece of apparatus waiting at the station for one or two people, when it could be en route to the scene. As far as having a cluster*@&k at the scene, maybe that's where some discipline should be issued. Don't block the road, and keep back far enough for the incoming apparatus to be able to access the scene with ease. As far as mutual aid goes, going to the station would be the best option. There's already going to be enough confusion at the scene, without adding to it. Hope I made some sort of sense, and don't sound to stupid!
|
|
|
Post by 911wacker on Mar 30, 2006 23:17:02 GMT -5
Canton mandates everyone responds to the station and they are a small volunteer department with a VERY large coverage area. I ran with them and it worked well. Yes occasionally the last 2 trucks may take an extra few minutes to hit the road but I never saw a time when personel vehicles were a problem on one of their scenes. When the units arrive on scene the chief knows he has at least 4 people or whatever the staffing is for that truck. What a concept!! Kudos to them for setting an example that everyone should consider!!
|
|
|
Post by flamethrower on Apr 1, 2006 14:24:18 GMT -5
If this is such a widely accepted policy then why do we continue to see emergency scenes plugged with personel vehicles and blue lights at many places. Its not like the majority of places around here enforce such a policy and I just wonder why that is?
|
|
|
Post by Medic13 on Apr 4, 2006 14:01:30 GMT -5
For the sake of arguement though, what about usefulness? A firefighter, even if he/she is trained, is pretty limited on scene without a truck, tools, airpack, turnout gear, ect. So unless you have an extended ETA in which you're gonna miss the truck anyway, why not just go right to the station? It's even worse in EMS... providers going straight to the scene without so much as a glove, drivers going straight to the scene period... then it takes several minutes of standing around doing nothing before someone realizes they're only a few miles from the garage and nobody remembered, ummm..., oh yeah, the ambulance. Fire or EMS, we can't do much without our equipment, and it probably isn't a good practice to assume someone else is gonna grab the truck.
|
|
|
Post by 911wacker on Apr 4, 2006 18:16:08 GMT -5
And even if 1 truck gets to the scene, you may not have enough ladders, airpacs and whatever!!
|
|