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Post by flamethrower on Feb 17, 2006 4:25:32 GMT -5
Medical Helicopters, Do we really need them in Bradford County?
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Feb 18, 2006 2:34:21 GMT -5
i think we need medical helicopters in this area 120%. we have such a rural area in this county that some times its 30 to 40 minutes to a hospital in an ambulance. and for those areas that dont have paid ems agencies a patient that is critical will have to wait for the bls crews to get out the door, get to the scene, and meanwhile the als truck is 30 minutes out.
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Post by gizmo2 on Feb 18, 2006 6:30:34 GMT -5
Most definately if it means life or death the bird is the way to go I'm all for it.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 18, 2006 23:53:36 GMT -5
Well, I do think that they are needed, but I also think that sometimes the helicopter is used when maybe it shouldn't be. If I had to speculate the reason why I would have to say that its because every helicopter service spends as much time flying as they do PR events, kissing your baby's and handing out all that free wacker crap. Not that I am agianst free stuff or anything.  Nearly half of the patients that I have flown in my EMS career would probobly have been to the hospital just as fast (or faster) by ground after all was siad and done. But speed of transport is not the only reason we may use the aeromedical team, after all they do carry a few more tools than us ground monkey's have. Not sure how they can afford it after giving away all that free stuff? ;D |
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Post by flamethrower on Feb 19, 2006 22:47:15 GMT -5
just as fast (or faster) by ground after This is what I am getting at!! |
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Post by blueeighty8 on Feb 20, 2006 11:03:30 GMT -5
So you think it is quicker to transport a critical patient by ground to the level 1 trauma center @ Geisinger, than to fly them? Towanda to Danville, 70 miles, in under twenty minutes.. I'd like to see that myself.  |
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Post by flamethrower on Feb 20, 2006 20:13:06 GMT -5
Medical Helicopters, Do we really need them in Bradford County? Robert Packer is not "recognized" as a trauma center currently but they have not changed anything they do, so why send someone 70 miles when we have a capable facility right her? Think about how much time you sit and wait for the helicopter, then think about how long they are on the ground before they take off. You would be silly to think that 50 % of the time you couldn't get them to the hospital by ground just as quick. |
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Post by blueeighty8 on Feb 20, 2006 22:14:37 GMT -5
Don't consider the golden hour starting when you get there, think from the time of the crash. In many parts of BC, you aren't 30 minutes from the packer anyway. Especially down in the rugged mountains of the sourthern townships. It's just not safe to rush someone out on a wagon trail.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Feb 21, 2006 1:27:29 GMT -5
i have been on a few scenes that they have flown the patients to danville that have been critical. now im not big into ems, but why if rph is still operating as a trauma center, but not a "recognized" one, why wouldnt they fly them there instead of geisinger?
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 21, 2006 2:00:02 GMT -5
why if rph is still operating as a trauma center, but not a "recognized" one, why wouldnt they fly them there instead of geisinger? They technically are not a trauma center, but have resources in place that may be beneficial to the patient as apposed to flying them 30 minutes away. There is a protocol that the state has in place that pretty much dictates where and when a trauma patient can be flown to. From my understanding if the patient requests RPH after being informed of their current status, they can be taken to that facility if they wish and is closer than a true trauma center. [glow=red,2,300]Hopefully they will be a trauma center agian in 6 months so we don't have all the red tape.[/glow] |
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Post by Matt Russell on Feb 21, 2006 7:13:15 GMT -5
flamethrower, let me start out by saying I think you are a MORON! You are making blanket statemets here about things you abviously know nothing about then...you can't even put you name to it, hhhhhhmmmmmmmm I think there was an issue with this a year or so ago! Anyway let me enlighten you, EMS is REGULATED (fire department's are not) it's called act45 get yourself a copy! Here is a link to the Pennsylvania Trauma Systems Foundation www.ptsf.org/ you might want to spend some time reading that as well and while I'm at it HERE is the STATE WIDE Air Ambulance protocol www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/lib/health/ems/airtraumatriage.pdf . Yes, you will note that there are certain times when patient's can be taken to RPH, and yes they ARE working diligently at getting their accredidation back however when I am working I MUST follow the protocol, I don't have to agree with it, just follow it! and NO, I can not make it from Canton or Troy to RPH in under 30 minutes safely - trust me I've tried! |
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Post by 921batt on Feb 21, 2006 7:46:36 GMT -5
Flamethrower, put yourself in the position of the victim or victims' (the people we serve). What would you want if you were caught in a flashover? Where is the nearest burn unit?
My point is this there are no NEVER and ALLWAYS in my book. We must utilize the most effective means available weather it be a pack mule or a whirly-bird. I want both in my tollbox.
Adapt and overcome.
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Post by herrick3 on Feb 21, 2006 7:57:31 GMT -5
Being able to use the helicopter, when needed, has been very beneficial to Bradford County. Granted, there are times that it may not have been necessary, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
And to quote the person that started this thread, this coming from a different topic on the boards,
[glow=red,2,300] "Those who chose not to use this in some shape or form, are playing chicken with the wrong end of the gun."[/glow]
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Post by Medic13 on Feb 21, 2006 14:52:22 GMT -5
I'll second what was already said. The regulations and protocols are there for a reason, and are not optional to follow. If the patient needs a trauma center, fly 'em, because they're probably gonna end up having to be flown down anyway. If there's a question, it really can't hurt to go to the closest facility and let the MD make the call. Towanda and Troy are still fully capable of stabilizing a patient, and therefore are far better than the back of your truck. But as far as the "recognized trauma center" thing, yes, it does matter. And Thad is right... if the patient is alert, oriented, and capable of making an AMA decision, they can go to any facility they wish, within reason.
Does Mr Flamethrower have a real name?
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9Wacker1
Full Member
Wacker - and proud of it!
Posts: 54
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Post by 9Wacker1 on Feb 21, 2006 22:03:47 GMT -5
My 2 cents. I haven't said anything in a while, but this one really got me thinking. First - why does anyone hide behind a screen name - we know each other, we work with each other, come on here - give us your opinions openly.
Second, I was taught (as Chris said) that the Golden Hour (our very best chance at survival and recovery for the PATIENT) starts when the incident happens. Then there is the 911 call, our dispatch, our response time (6 minutes on a good day) to the garage (talking volunteer crews here), our response time to the scene, and then transport time. We've already eaten up at LEAST one-third of that hour! In Ridgebury, our nearest ALS truck is usually 20 minutes away or more. When it comes to time, the bird is only 7 minutes out - a real time and life saver when its needed.
Third, there are some calls that you know RPH is going to pass them on. Nothing against RPH - they know their limitations and know when to refer a bad case to another facility. I know of at least 2 calls that I have had that flew to Geisinger and made a dramatically positive result on the patient recovery. One probably wouldn't have made it without airmedical transport.
There are lots of factors - and I for one and very much in favor of the bird (and the wacker gear when I can get it!). Don't knock it - you may need it someday!
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