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Post by 911wacker on Jul 17, 2005 21:45:08 GMT -5
In this new day and age of replacing traditional equipment with multi-role apparatus do you think that a rescue-pumper is the way to go and why?
Here I will list a few of my own opinions:
A combination unit will ensure that if only one truck hits the street with limited manpower, you will be sure to have generally anything you may need to complete a minor/moderate extrication if the rescue pumper is well equiped. The key word here is IF!! Less vehicles to maintain in your fleet, replacement costs, etc. Certianly this has been a huge factor in many departments going this direction!!
More prudent is the fact that these vehicles lack the compartment and design space to be an effective rescue in the overall picture, if your department plans on feilding a "true" rescue with capabilities in multiple disciplines such as rope, confined space, etc. If your rescue plans on keeping ample cribbing, ropes and support equipment my personal feeling is that you need a specific peice designed to do the job!!
[glow=red,2,300]So what are your thoughts?[/glow]
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Post by Medic12 on Jul 18, 2005 9:19:38 GMT -5
I think a rescue pumper is a great idea. My company went with a rescue pumper in October and so far it has been great. We have limited manpower during the day and were never able to get an engine and rescue out during the day. Now we get both with one shot. There are still a few down falls like size compared to our rescue and the number of drivers, but we are slowly adapting and overcoming this problem as well.
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Post by fireman31 on Jul 18, 2005 9:34:29 GMT -5
a combo truck is alright if you have 2 of them, or your neighboring departments don't mind covering 2 trucks when your combo truck is out of service. i think that this would be the only down fall.
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Post by Medic12 on Jul 18, 2005 22:12:54 GMT -5
Yeah but why need 2 of them, I don't honestly think anyone around here is busy enough to get more than two calls at the same time (besides BS calls). Look at the bigger area's such as DC (Kentland) etc, they get by just fine with one rescue pumper and running over 7,000 calls a year...
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Post by fireman31 on Jul 19, 2005 9:05:42 GMT -5
these dept. you mention doesn't have any trouble with there trucks going out for repairs. thats what i was talking about. when a truck goes out of service most departments have nearest department to the incident on automatic for coverage. if you have a combination truck out of service you will be pulling 2 trucks from that department, instead of one. unless other wise requested.
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Post by 911wacker on Jul 19, 2005 12:09:00 GMT -5
What I was getting at is the fact that these units are fine for departments who only care about your simple vehicle extrications, a rescue-pumper works fine for a simple extrication involving one vehicle. On the other hand, if you have more than one vehicle or a large truck like a tractor trailer involved these rescue-pumpers lack the additional cribbing and tools to get the job done effectively. Not to mention the fact that water and rope rescue equipment will be kept where??
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Post by fireman31 on Jul 20, 2005 8:16:01 GMT -5
undertaker thanks for the insight. the way you folks have it set up sounds like a well planned system. sounds good i hadn't looked at it that way.
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Post by 2Truck on Jul 20, 2005 10:31:38 GMT -5
Currently being with a company that runs a Rescue-Engine I have to add some input. On the rescue side our rig carries a complete set of Holmatro tools, a large amount of cribbing, air tools, sawzalls, rope rescue equipment, spill equipment, and BLS equipment (w/ an AED). On the fire side the rig has a 1500 gpm pump with 500 gal. of water and 30 gal. of class B foam, 1500' of 5", 4- 1 3/4" cross-lays, and 2- 2 1/2" lines off the rear (one for a tail gun, and one for a leader line), ventilation saw as well as the required ladders and hand tools to function as an engine. We run this rig onto the PA Turnpike for auto accidents and fires all the time, we have yet to find a situation that the rig was not able to handle. As long as the crew that rides the piece realizes that they don't have all of the little toys that a larger rescue may have, they can adapt what they have to complete the situation. The people that are complaining that two pieces will be lost if the rig goes out of service need to rethink what they are saying. If a combo goes out of service yes two services are lost, that's why there is next due. But if you had a rescue and an engine if one went out you would still need to go next due to fill for what is OOS. You are still going to be down a rig, whether it be an engine or a rescue. With the limited funding and manpower that we are getting today combo rigs are going to become more prevalent until we get more people or money! As for the wacker..........is there any piece out there that can do EVERYTHING?!?!?! Part of being in the fire/rescue service is being able to adapt what you have to overcome a bad situation. I know for a fact that there "heavy" rescues that do not have half of the equipment that some engine-rescues carry. Combo pieces are designed by departments to serve the communities they serve and the surrounding area for what is going to be encountered each and every day. Sure technical rescues do occur, but if one was to occur multiple rescues are going to have to be called to get all of the necessary equipment to complete the rescue.
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Post by fireman31 on Jul 21, 2005 10:34:22 GMT -5
yes if a engine or a rescue or any other truck goes out of service you go to nearest available to cover that truck. but thats one truck. anymore around hear if you take more than one truck from another station you have stripped that department of manpower. so then we have to go to the bradford county shuffle.
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Post by 911wacker on Jul 21, 2005 10:46:20 GMT -5
More prudent is the fact that these vehicles lack the compartment and design space to be an effective rescue in the overall picture, if your department plans on feilding a "true" rescue with capabilities in multiple disciplines such as rope, confined space, etc. If your rescue plans on keeping ample cribbing, ropes and support equipment my personal feeling is that you need a specific peice designed to do the job!! What part of this makes you think that one truck can do it all?? I did say that if your department is OK with limited capabilities then have at it!! Looking for input here not a pissing match of ego's. I am willing to bet that your rescue-pumpers lack the required amount of cribbing to secure a tractor trailer effectively since most departments who have dedicated rescue trucks lack the amount of cribbing without another rescue as support during these incidents.
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LT106
Junior Member
Pre-Burn is Good!
Posts: 15
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Post by LT106 on Jul 21, 2005 19:21:33 GMT -5
We have a 2250gpm rescue/pumper lcoated at our 2nd station about 6 miles away from where our heavy rescue is.It carries Hurst spreaders, O-cutters, rams,high lift jacks, a pile of cribbing and other hand tools. This can start the job until the heavy rescue gets there (maybe even finish it) It has worked to our advantage greatly in the year that we went with this combination. It replaced a engine and a small rescue truck
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Post by blueeighty8 on Jul 21, 2005 20:28:47 GMT -5
I don't think it turned into a pissing match of egos, unless your pissing on yourself?
Lack of man power Lack of runs to justify single purpose apparatus Cost
Good ideas there...
What call did you run that you didn't have enough cribbing, obviously you are more concerned about the amount of cribbing than why someone would put a tank & pump on a rescue. You could go on and on with pros and cons. Would never hurt to keep them in crates on a shelf near the rescue, if you need more, throw them on something else. Yall don't have a problem with whackers driving to the scene, toss some in the whacker trucks - give em a reason to rush to the scene w/ a blue light to declare king of the hill.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Jul 22, 2005 18:14:42 GMT -5
IN TROY WE HAVE JUST A RESCUE, IN OUR CASE WITH MANPOWER ISSUES DURING THE DAY IT WOULD BE NICE TO GO TO A PUMPER/RESCUE BUT WITH THAT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT YOU WILL GAIN SIZE. THE GOOD THING WITH THE RESCUE THAT WE HAVE WE CAN GO OFF ROAD IF WE HAVE AN ATV OR SNOWMOBILE ACCIDENT OR EVEN A SEARCH. WITH THE BIGGER TRUCKS YOU WOULD EITHER GET IT STUCK OR SMACK EVERY TREE LIMB ON THE WAY IN. OUR RESCUE IS 2002 KME FORD F-550 WITH A 16FT BOX. WE HAVE 2 COMPARTMENTS THAT ARE FILLED WITH CRIBBING. WE ALSO CARRY HI LIFT JACKS SPREADERS, CUTTERS , RAMS, AND SOME ROPES. THIS UNIT ALSO HAS OUR CASCADE SYSTEM
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Post by canton1 on Jul 27, 2005 23:58:55 GMT -5
Ok,
I as always have a another side of it. I dont understand the whole thing. I am nto saying one truck cant do more than one thing but does it not have a PRIMARY PURPOSE.
Why do we call it a Pumper Tanker if it is a Tanker? Why do we call it a Pumper Rescue if it is a Rescue?
I would think if you are going to have a multi purpose truck you would have one to replace it is you get another call or if it breaks. So many times if you take a PR to a PARADE we have to initiate mutual aid---- That does not make much sense to me.
I think you can get the picture of my thoughts from that.
GRIBBING---I am yet to find anyone that has enough for all calls. I think we all sould have more saved at the station but I doubt most do.
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Mansfield2
Junior Member
Jim Welch, Mansfield Hose Company Chief
Posts: 23
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Post by Mansfield2 on Jul 29, 2005 10:59:27 GMT -5
The Chief is right a rescue/pumper must have a primary job, and a back up plan. We have been running a rescue/pumper for about 6 years now and have had little problem. Our back up is a light duty rescue which does have a combi tool, hand tools and some additional cribbing. This works well when we have multiple calls or if we are out on a mutual aid call or parade we have a unit back to handle the job or at least get it started until help arrives. If you put your eggs all in one basket, eventually you're going to drop it.
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