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Post by chief322 on Nov 14, 2010 16:09:10 GMT -5
Great Job by Franklin Township FD and its mutual aid assignments on a a tough situation..which you all did yeomen service with multiple buildings involved. I think that BC dispatch in this instance failed to live up to expectations in supporting operations. Field operations VS Basement operations (even with multiple operations on-going) are no reason to to lessen the event or priority. Lack of manpower on a dispatch side is not the problem of an incident commander..its the supervisor or directors...and in the end the Commisioners.
Tim
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Post by Medic13 on Nov 14, 2010 23:45:25 GMT -5
I really have to disagree, Tim. I felt they did an excellent job dealing with the multiple incidents, many of which were unknown to the fire units. I also don't agree that they gave priority to any so-called "basement" operation over the field incidents. I'm not really sure what you mean by that to be honest, but I had no feeling that they were "lessening the event or priority" of any incident.
I thought the amount of unnecessary radio traffic from several unnamed field units was absolutely ridiculous. There was no excuse for some of the wildly unprofessional traffic. Too many people on the air, messages unintelligible due to excitement, multiple messages repeated, units using Fire1 instead of the assigned operations frequency, units using the wrong operations frequency, units bouncing back and forth between frequencies... just a mess, and completely unnecessary. I'm sure this offends some folks. Oh well.
As for the alleged manpower issue, I have to disagree on two points. One, while I contend that the dispatchers didn't have an issue dealing with the incidents... lets say they did, would the unnecessary radio traffic not have been a major factor? Two, I'm willing to bet that every dispatch center in the country has been swamped at one time or another. It happens. That doesn't mean they're incompetent or have a chronic manpower issue, it means they were busy and adapted to an extraordinary situation, just as the IC should do too. Also keep in mind that the taxpayers shoulder the cost of additional dispatchers, which is hard to justify when the extra person isn't needed most of the time. And it's not like they're rolling in fame and money up there...
For the record, I'm not speaking for the county. Having experience on both sides of the radio, I can tell you that the vast majority of the field units in this county have little to no understanding of (and even less respect for) the EOC. I applaud the two dispatchers for their work today.
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Post by strangeone on Nov 17, 2010 20:33:33 GMT -5
To whom it may concern,as IC of this incident I felt all on scene units did a fantastic job and i commend all of those who rallied around little Franklindale to assist with this scorcher,this includes all of the following,Franklindale,Canton,Troy,Towanda,Monroeton,N.Towanda ,Wysox Memorial EMS,and the Bradford County EOC and it's crew,thanks to Gary and Skip for showing they care,Roy and kim and Paul and terry for there on scene help. AS ANYONE CAN SEE it was a team effort by all involved the way it should be,I proudly stand by my crew and all others that were there to help out and hope we can be of assistance to anyone of those fine departments. Don Stranger Sr Chief FTVFD
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devildancer22
Full Member
anything I may post is my opinion only and may not be the opionion of others.
Posts: 32
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Post by devildancer22 on Nov 21, 2010 16:32:39 GMT -5
Must be nice to be an arm chair quarterback sit back with nothing else better to do but to listen to another co firecall just so u can nit pick so since our unprofessional radio traffic bothers certain people heres what were going to do so we dont offend people like this no more for now on we will be using smoke signls to communicate canton 1 gray smoke means bring the ladder , troy 1 blue smoke means bring both tankers , monroeton 1 white smoke means set up a fill site, tow 1 smoke rings mean manpower north tow 1 heart shape smoke rings means rescue needed talk about ridiculous and just for the record let me paint a picture for you of what we were facing some jackass must of thought we was bored so they torch one of the bigger farm houses we have in our liittle town couple churches and old stores little bit bigger not much k we get there over half the structure involved normal structure fire right well then mother nature must of thought it wasnt exciting enough she had to throw her two cents in it and take a normal house fire and turn tit into a raging infernal with a twist now we have a barn right across the road catch fire but that wasnt enough it catches the field across the road behind the barn on fire but still not enough it also catches the round bales on fire behind the barn and remember this place been abandon for sevral years so the foot high yard around the whole house is on fire. Guess what i am trying to say is dont be to quick to judge another co that hasnt sceen this type of incident ever with all that was burning and hope we dont face again and i will be first to admit i am one of the un professional raido talkers but dont really care am not in this type of work to impress anybody or any other counties that get on here to bust on us about what we sound like on the radio am here for the community and as long as we get the job done and we all go home safe thats all that matters and p.s .as far as hurting our feelings first you must have feelings to hurt and we dont we have a sign on the door at the hall that says easy hurt people with feelings need not apply why because we are the biggest bunch of redneck firefighters ,we just getter done the best we can.
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Post by chief322 on Dec 1, 2010 20:09:19 GMT -5
Chief (Dale);
Pull your bunched up panties out of your ass! As a scanner "whacker", I posted that Department 22 ran a fantastic job under difficult situations. Like it matters..I found nothing to post but praise for a job exceptionally done by your Department as well as mutual aid companies. Perhaps you are not used to compliments, but I gave this incident two thumbs up on the fire service side.
My only "beef " during this was dispatching operations not fireground or command operations or decisions.. Let me reiterate again for you...You all did a very good job under tough circumstances.
Lastly...Your tone seems to imply I have a personal adgenda against your department and yourself personally. For the record..Your father (The Chief) was a mentor for me in my upbringing and I respect him always. YOU were selected immediately by me to be an officer in my operations as a CFO when you were getting the shaft from others..including your own department. I saw and knew the potential and am still seeing it. You may piss me off at times...but I WILL NOT throw one of my own "under the bus".
Lets hope for my sake right now its recipricol.
Also for all...my name is Tim and NOT for whom it may concern. I sign my posts and man up when right or wrong. I DEMAND honest opinions from from all on here when I address an issue. The good LT from Towanda posted his opinion directly to me and it was well received from this end. Thats what I EXPECT from this board..constructive dialogue ..constructive critisism..great debate..and loss of attitude. We may not always agree...but we can always agree to disagree.
Happy Holidays, my Brothers!
Tim
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Post by Medic13 on Dec 3, 2010 13:49:27 GMT -5
I'm guessing he was referring to me. Dale, despite your tone, I'm glad you agree with me that the radio traffic was an issue. I would hope that you plan on taking it more seriously than your previous post implies. i will be first to admit i am one of the un professional raido talkers but dont really care This concerns me because you should care. It's your duty as an officer, a firefighter, and a member of the community to control yourself (and your department) on emergency calls. It isn't an issue of impressing anybody. It's an issue of safety and an issue of respect for everyone else involved. This isn't meant to be an attack on Dept22 or anyone in particular... if they did a good job fighting the fire they deserve praise... I wasn't on scene so I can't comment. The issue was raised that the dispatchers didn't do their jobs, and I disagree, citing the radio traffic from certain field units as the primary factor for the call sounding so disorganized.
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devildancer22
Full Member
anything I may post is my opinion only and may not be the opionion of others.
Posts: 32
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Post by devildancer22 on Dec 7, 2010 18:00:20 GMT -5
tim the comments by the chief and myself wasn't ment for you sorry you took it way it was for pete.And as far as repeating myself on the radio it was to make sure that the dispatchers got the message didnt want to get cut off by some off the bigger radios in use how many times lately have you heard on the radio the dispatchers ask for your traffic repeated because you were stepped on by another unit i needed a fill site set up other wise you didnt hear a pepe from me and if i had to i would do it again just to make sure it was recieved but hey in a perfect world we wouldnt have fires then you wouldnt have to listen to in perfect people on the radio
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Post by chief322 on Dec 8, 2010 22:41:54 GMT -5
LT (Pete): Don't know if you still have access but pull the tape and listen. My beef with County operations during the 22 box call was that requests were admittedly delayed (over-the air) because of multiple incidents. Of the 3 fire side incidents working during this time frame, I would think one that involved 5 or more departments would take a priority over a CO detector activation call. But being a MMQ, perhaps I don't know what the county's protocol is on fireground priorities during multiple incidents. I didn't see where unnecessary radio traffic hindered the box job or the low-budget CO call. For hypothetical..suppose this was a PD action with an officer down and shots fired. The officer was OK, but incident was expanded to involve numerous police departments in the apprehension...would a routine traffic stop requesting License & Plate checks take a priority during the above PD event? I ask that because that one incident hits really close to home! This was not a knock at all to our dispatchers who do a fantastic job 100% of the time. My female dog is do we need 3 to actively run a shift...even if one is a call-taker.. to be truly efficient to ALL services dispatched by the County...or is two really enough per shift? Bradford County may not be "Big-League" by comparison to more populated counties in the Commonwealth, but we have seen our call volume increase rapidly. Remember when we had only one dispatcher to run 3 consoles..and take calls? Have we only doubled that amount to warrant 2..24/7? LASTLY on my part: Deputy 22 doesn't deserve to defend himself on a job well done. His radio usage during this incident doesn't differ from ANY other department in this county during an incident that involves not one..but two at the same time at same location. Tell me different and I will call you a liar. Happy Holidays my Friends! Be Safe! As Always...Tim
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Post by Medic13 on Dec 9, 2010 16:41:16 GMT -5
LT (Pete): Don't know if you still have access but pull the tape and listen. Sure I do, but we don't use our positions to snoop around for the fun of it. I was listening to the same thing you were. Delayed by how long? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? I'm willing to bet it was in the seconds. I don't know the exact timeframe, but certainly not long enough to make a difference in the outcome, no matter how much we "what if". Incorrect. The number of departments in an incident doesn't determine it's priority. The potential for loss of life/limb does. Of course it did. Dale said himself that he had to repeat requests because people were walking all over him. Many units didn't go to the ops frequency. Another fire officer was jabbering on the wrong frequency entirely. Some messages were completely unintelligible due to excitement. If the delays caused by the unnecessary radio traffic weren't an issue, the "delay" from the other incidents sure as heck wasn't either. I don't entertain hypothetical questions. Intentional or not, they're loaded questions by nature. I'm sure the directors would be happy to answer any question you have on SOP's. Regardless of the intent, it sure does seem like a jab at the dispatchers. It's only being "discussed" because I chose to take the high road to defend them. Yet when I point to the elephant in the room (radio traffic), I'm somehow urinating on sacred ground? It's a valid point, it's nothing new, I'm not the only person who shares that opinion, and I think it deserves as much attention as the accusation that the dispatchers did something wrong. Need and want are two different beasts. In tough times like these, you really have to demonstrate a need. One extraordinary situation, in which the outcome was good anyway, doesn't prove need. Would an extra be nice sometimes? Sure. "Want" isn't one of those efficient taxpayer-friendly words. You said yourself that you want honesty in this forum. So lets be honest. He admitted his radio use is unprofessional and he admitted there was a problem with radio traffic on that incident. I don't mean to trash him on the internet, but if he's going to admit to a problem, I'm not going to lie and tell him not to worry about it. Instead of getting upset, making excuses, or denying the problem alltogether... why not just find a solution. As far as "any other department" sounding like that on the air... by this point I think everyone already knows my response to that, so I'll save the additional discussion about me being a liar. I know this post is a bit darker than my last two. I mean no offense to anyone. Aside from wanting the best for the community, I take pride in what we all do. That includes giving praise and criticism where it is deserved.
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devildancer22
Full Member
anything I may post is my opinion only and may not be the opionion of others.
Posts: 32
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Post by devildancer22 on Dec 14, 2010 17:40:54 GMT -5
To the 2 dispatchers that were on working the day of dept 22 structure fire i apologize for any wrong doing on the radio that day i have alot of respect for what they do and they are better people then me a job i could never do or want and for the record gary or rob have not contacted us for any wrong doing on the radio so must be it wasnt that bad to them Yes i did admitt to repeating myself on the radio and you know why i did and if i had to i would do it again as far as the other radio issuses that pete is referring to i am not sure so i cant speak for them i was little busy being engine boy flowing water. I do know that i did encounter a radio problem on the ops channel that day on channel 3 i tried to make contact with the fill site co that was 2 miles down the road and couldnt now at this time there wasnt a whole lot of radio traffic at that time so not sure what the deal is there and maybe someone smarter then me which isnt hard to do could tell me as the crow flies what kind of in milage range we have on these ops channels i do not know what the protocall is for the dispatchers on what call deserves priority over another but as far as life and limb go everybody knows more firemen and women are killed or injured on structure fires then any other type of calls not saying our fire was priority but i do know there was alot of fire personal there and the way that call was going with all that was happening with exsposers wind size of structure the potential for injuries or the other was real high and everybody did a great job in looking out for each other I have been to a couple chiefs meetings as of late and i know that gary and some others are looking into a dispatch only channel i dont know much about it but maybe that will help with some of the radio traffic and as we all know the amount of emerency calls are up for every dept and so are the multipule calls at the same time so if it dose go through it should help
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