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Post by 911wacker on Jan 3, 2006 19:36:53 GMT -5
I am willing to bet that almost every department in the area has a pretty standard length and size pre-connect on all the engines in its station. Almost every department carries 150-250' of 1 3/4" hose for there first off lines. This is a no brainer, but do you all carry additional hose in a configuration that allows you to make a long reach handline with minimal effort and ease?
So whats on your hosebed and how do you use it?
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Post by blueeighty8 on Jan 4, 2006 17:19:24 GMT -5
Not authorized to comment on this matter. My opinion has been deleted.
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Post by chief322 on Jan 5, 2006 6:38:08 GMT -5
Great topic!
I have often wondered how many departments utilize a pre-connected "step-gun" as the majority of the rural departments here in our area arrive to find a well involved (defensive) fire. We pre-connect attack lines for offensive operations, but what about defensive. Also, I question who utilizes the stang or pre-pped monitor upon arrival as an attack weapon? This is a risky use, but the rewards are great if used properly and effectively.
57 House: with your blitz fire on the ladder, what are your SOP's in putting it into service? Do you require an established water supply prior to use? I believe that the blitzfire has a 500 gpm head on it. With a 300 gallon tank, that leaves app. 45 seconds worth of water to use. This would be similar to using a can on a room and contents. It can be done, if properly used and effectively used. Would this line be stretched on an advanced, offensive fire if the ladder is the first arriving?
May your boom (or bed section) always be vertical!
Tim
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Post by blueeighty8 on Jan 5, 2006 9:04:23 GMT -5
Not authorized to comment on this matter. My opinion has been deleted.
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Post by blueeighty8 on Jan 5, 2006 9:12:57 GMT -5
Not authorized to comment on this matter. My opinion has been deleted.
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Post by Medic12 on Jan 5, 2006 10:13:34 GMT -5
Engine 58 has cross-lays of 1- 200' of 2" 1- 200' of 1 3/4 both in a minuteman load and with TFT automatic pistol grip nozzles. Then it has 1- 250' 2 1/2 pre-connected off the back with a blitz-fire ground monitor.
Our Akron deck gun is removable and can utilized as a ground monitor with 2- 2 1/2" lines. Also carried but not pre-connected are 2 TFT pro-paks with 200' of 1" hose. One is set up to deliver Class A and the other to deliver Class B foam.
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 5, 2006 20:29:39 GMT -5
Great feedback, glad to see that the blitzfire is becoming a widely carried tool.
How many of you have a pre-designed hose load that allows you to reach far beyond the capabilities of your pre-connects and make a "long" attack line? What do you use and how is it configured on your apparatus? How easy and quickly can it be put into service? And what flows do you expect to get from them?
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Post by Medic12 on Jan 6, 2006 0:54:17 GMT -5
In the hose bed next to our 1,500' of Angus 5" we have 600' of 3 inch hose that can be used as a leader line, then a leader line wye. Right now in order to utilize this we would need to deploy one of our minute man loads or a section that is rolled up in our rear compartment. Eventually we would like to have at least 1 if not 2 1 3/4" high rise packs to use off the leader line. But we haven't really run into this situation very often so we're in no hurry to put this plan together.
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 6, 2006 0:59:29 GMT -5
In the hose bed next to our 1,500' of Angus 5" we have 600' of 3 inch hose that can be used as a leader line, then a leader line wye. Right now in order to utilize this we would need to deploy one of our minute man loads or a section that is rolled up in our rear compartment. Eventually we would like to have at least 1 if not 2 1 3/4" high rise packs to use off the leader line. But we haven't really run into this situation very often so we're in no hurry to put this plan together. This is exactly what I would like to see my department do. Eventually we will get to it.
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Post by chief322 on Jan 6, 2006 6:03:05 GMT -5
I do not agree that the use of a pre-connected master stream cannot be utilized for an offensive operation, particularly for intial attack. If I had a preference, I would use a blitzfire as I believe they are rated at 500 gpm. Deployed and used effectively, this type of large caliber stream can put an advanced working fire in check and allow mop up with smaller offensive attack lines.
This same aspect applies to prepiped stang guns. It is a gutsy call to make to dump your tank upon arrival, but I have seen it deployed on a few occasions and the outcome was fantastic. This type of operation requires a skilled and trained operator of the mastere stream device.
I should note that using a preconnected large caliber stream is effective with low manpower. The use of a preconnected 2-1/2 attack line requires 2/3rd's more personnel that using one step gun or a prepiped masterstream.
Lastly, when using the automatic nozzles coupled to preconnected lines (or any line for that fact), do you have listed pump pressures for desired flow rates coming off the nozzle? Automatics are a great nozzle if the pump operator and the attack team are on the same page. Pressure does not equal flow. Pressure does not put out fire.
To me, and this is strictly an opinion, the use of an automatic nozzle requires substantial training on both the chauffeur and the attack crews. Having them and only running 4-5 workers a year does not give the users the necessary experience in handling this type of nozzle. With automatics, 75 gpm looks the same as 200 gpm coming out the nozzle based on pressure. This is what the nozzle was developed for.
At least with constant gallonage or selectable gallonage nozzles, if you were losing pressure (and losing GPM's), the nozzleman could notify the pump operator based on visual.
May your boom always be vertical!
Tim
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Post by 2Truck on Jan 6, 2006 13:08:37 GMT -5
Tim brings up a good point about using the stang for offensive operations. I had the opportunity to view a video of a department that stanged an attic fire. It was the wrong time to do so. boundbrookfd.org/ -> 12/18 Structure fire (video) As for hose loads...... Bring on the duece and a half . In the suburbs of Harrisburg on our Wagon we run 6 cross-lays (2- 150' 1.75", 2 - 200' 1.75", and 2 - 200' 3" lines) off the back we run 200' of 3" preconnected to a blitzfire, 200' of 3" preconnected with a wye for hooking up to a fire department connection (stand pipe), and also 200' of 3" with a wye and an additional 150' of 1.75" already preconnected (for long lines). This does not include the 1500' of 5" and 500' of 3" deadloaded in the bed. The high rise pack that we carry consists of 200' of 2.5" with a smoothbore, as well as 100' of 1.75" off the front bumper. On the Squad (Rescue-Engine) we carry the same crosslays minus the big lines, and 2- 200' 3" leader lines for connecting to a step gun, 1500' of 5", 300' of 3" and 100' of 1.75" off the front bumper. The Tower runs 2- 200' 1.75" crosslays, 500' of 5" and 600 ' of 3" deadloaded on the rear. As well asa 5' section of 1.75" and 50' of 1.75" in the bucket. We have found that this works well for us while others may look at it in disbelief. Don't be afraid to experiment with different things and look/copy what others are doing with their hose loads. Find what works for you and your department and go with it.
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Post by blueeighty8 on Jan 6, 2006 19:25:58 GMT -5
Not authorized to comment on this matter. My opinion has been deleted.
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Post by 2Truck on Jan 13, 2006 20:20:06 GMT -5
I believe what the Chief is trying to say is that without proper training that our skills will go by the wayside since we are running fewer and fewer jobs each year.
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