NT1
Full Member
Administrator
Be part of the solution not the problem.
Posts: 80
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Post by NT1 on Jan 12, 2006 19:12:57 GMT -5
What does your dept. do? When do you start to vent. and how, positive or negative. How do you adapt to different building constructions.
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Post by 2Truck on Jan 13, 2006 20:17:31 GMT -5
Offensive ventilation is sometimes overlooked by departments that are strapped for manpower. With that being said the nozzle team usually takes a beating trying to make the fire room/floor. Offensive ventilation IMO does not consist of putting fans in doors and cracking the roof. A simple task of getting the windows on the fire floor opened up (don't be afraid to break them, they sell new windows everyday at Lowes/Home Depot but you can't buy a replacement for a brother there), or the floor above the fire, will help the crew out tremendously because usually that floor is pressurized due to the heat and smoke contained there. While this may not be the most glorious position to have on the fire ground it is one of the most overlooked and is usually accomplished as an after thought. As for fans, PPV is by far more effective then negative (if done properly), although negative pressure has its place. Generally with older homes it is not a good idea to put a fan in the door behind the initial entry crew due to the construction of older homes. On newer homes I would not be afraid to put a fan in the door behind the initial hose line if there is a room or two off and offensive ventilation is taking place. Thanks to dry-wall more and more fires are being contained to the room of origin with minor extension out the doorways. Where's my hero the Truck God Chief Flynn for his comment?
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 16, 2006 15:52:27 GMT -5
Usaully a few windows are removed as the attack team stretches the line and calls for water. Once the attack team makes entry and calls that they have a knock on it, PPV goes into service. Of course we don't always get it done that smoothly, but in theory that it.
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Post by chief322 on Jan 17, 2006 4:55:02 GMT -5
A topic that is close to my heart!
As Jamie stated the use of PPV is probably the best form of mechanical ventilation in today's service. If done properly it can quickly and effectively remove all toxic gases and other products of combustion. One thing to remember when ordering this operation is to assign it to an individual or a crew. To often other helping hands try and help out, only to defeat the purpose of what you are trying to accomplish. Unless you are a highly trained group in the use of PPV, I wouldn't recommend its use for fire attack (used as an offensive tool in conjuction with the attack team.). I have used this practice before with one incident that resulted in burnt firefighters and additional structural damage. Lastly, if you are so inclined to "take the windows out", forget using PPV.
Now vertical ventilation is a must on most structural fires where one or more rooms are off. This should be coordinated with the interior operations (Yeah you have to talk with one another!). If you are going to cut a hole, cut a hole not a peekhole. The standard size piece of plywood sold at most lumber yards is 48 x 96", so cut a 4x8 hole. Please remember that trench cutting is a defensive operation, not a ventilation practice.
When the hole has been cut and cleared, it should be piked with a pole to open any obstructions below, such as suspended ceilings or drywall ceilings. One of the things we can run into is roofs built upon roofs, which means you are going to have to "open up" twice to accomplish ventilation.
Lastly we have the old, reliable hydraulic ventilation. When the engine boys are done squirting their nozzles, get them into the windows and start clearing out the room. This practice of ventilation does work, although is a little slower than having a fan in the door.
One more thing on the taking the window concept. I personally do not like taking out windows unless a rescure is to be attempted or an egression ladder is being placed. I am only saying this based on the bigger picture later in the incident (PPV).
Don't worry Gary, we will make a truckie out of you someday!
Tim
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Post by bigbother on Mar 4, 2006 11:40:09 GMT -5
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Post by 921batt on Mar 6, 2006 8:20:01 GMT -5
To the less experienced vent teams I would suggest you use PPV after the fire is knocked down. PPV must be timed right or else you will be using the three F's of PPV. What didn't you read about the three F's in the many published articles? This is what I came up with (no copyright on this one) I never got around to publishing my article.
F= Fan F= Find F= Follow
I have personally witnessed this phenomenon! Be Careful or the winds will blow wild!
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