luke
Junior Member
Posts: 22
|
Post by luke on Mar 18, 2006 18:43:19 GMT -5
I have a question for some one to asnwer for me. Why do coroner's have red and blue lights along with sirens when they are responding to a fatality?
|
|
|
Post by GVEMS11 on Mar 18, 2006 19:42:41 GMT -5
Because they can...?? ;D TITLE 75, THE VEHICLE CODE: §102 Definitions "Emergency vehicle." A fire department vehicle, police vehicle, sheriff vehicle, ambulance, blood-delivery vehicle, human organ delivery vehicle, hazardous material response vehicle, armed forces emergency vehicle, one vehicle operated by a coroner or chief county medical examiner and one vehicle operated by a chief deputy coroner or deputy chief county medical examiner used for answering emergency calls, or any other vehicle designated by the State Police under section 6106 (relating to designation of emergency vehicles by Pennsylvania State Police), or a privately owned vehicle used in answering an emergency call when used by any of the following: A police chief and assistant chief. A fire chief, assistant chief and, when a fire company has three or more fire vehicles, a second or third assistant chief. A fire police captain and fire police lieutenant. An ambulance corps commander and assistant commander. A river rescue commander and assistant commander. A county emergency management coordinator. A fire marshal. A rescue service chief and assistant chief. §4571. Visual and audible signals on emergency vehicles. (a) General rule.--Every emergency vehicle shall be equipped with one or more revolving or flashing red lights and an audible warning system. Spotlights with adjustable sockets may be attached to or mounted on emergency vehicles. (b) Police, sheriff, fire and coroner or medical examiner vehicles.-- Police, sheriff, coroner, medical examiner or fire police vehicles may in addition to the requirements of subsection (a) be equipped with one or more revolving or flashing blue lights. The combination of red and blue lights may be used only on police, sheriff, coroner, medical examiner or fire police vehicles. Unmarked police and sheriff vehicles, used as emergency vehicles and equipped with audible warning systems, shall be equipped with the lights described in this subsection.
|
|
luke
Junior Member
Posts: 22
|
Post by luke on Mar 18, 2006 20:52:19 GMT -5
Thanks for answering that. The only reason I am asking this is because here a couple of weeks ago I was outside of my house and saw a vehicle running a blue light and a siren. I had a couple of people ask me why someone with a blue light would have a siren. I told them that it was probably the coroner due to the fact that western ems was out with a class 5. So that is why I am asking.
|
|
|
Post by pcartwright on Mar 19, 2006 13:01:56 GMT -5
It is possible that it was a Federal Government Law Enforcement Unit. Federal Law Enforcement Units tend in my experience to use blue lights and sirens rather than Red Lights and Sirens.
Federal Law Enforcement Unit Examples: FBI Homeland Security Boarder Patrol US Customs Airport Police / TSA Counter Terrorism Task Force
|
|
|
Post by flamethrower on Apr 1, 2006 14:36:22 GMT -5
Right or wrong....they are allowed by the Law. But this does not allow them to RUN people off the road which I have seen more than once with my own eyes. Dead is dead and it doesn't matter how fast the coroner gets to a scene to CONFIRM what someone else has already determined.
|
|
GVEMS30
Full Member
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein
Posts: 75
|
Post by GVEMS30 on Apr 2, 2006 10:25:22 GMT -5
I recently asked a Bradford County Deputy Coroner this same question. He told me that was to get to there before some Medic messed up the crime scene.
|
|
|
Post by Medic13 on Apr 2, 2006 18:35:40 GMT -5
I recently asked a Bradford County Deputy Coroner this same question. He told me that was to get to there before some Medic messed up the crime scene. That's pretty funny
|
|
24wacker1
Full Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 77
|
Post by 24wacker1 on Apr 4, 2006 16:17:56 GMT -5
Because they can...?? ;D one vehicle operated by a coroner or chief county medical examiner and one vehicle operated by a chief deputy coroner or deputy chief county medical examiner used for answering emergency calls I may be taking this the wrong way, but doesn't this vehicle code mean that only the cornoner or chief deputy cornoner can run red's and sirens?
|
|
|
Post by GVEMS11 on Apr 4, 2006 16:55:40 GMT -5
Interesting point. Looks like it might be a matter of interpretation? Section 102, the definition of an emergency vehicle, is quite specific. However, Section 4571 might be questionable... is a "coroner vehicle" a vehicle operated by THE coroner, i.e. the person elected to that office, or does "coroner vehicle" mean a vehicle operated by A coroner, as in a chief deputy, deputy, a driver for the coroner's office, etc? We already know from Section 102 that the chief deputy can run red lights POV, so obviously that falls under "coroner vehicle" in Section 4571, but how far down does "coroner vehicle" extend? Any law enforcement personnel out there with an interpretation??
|
|
|
Post by Tech81 on Apr 4, 2006 17:58:35 GMT -5
Well I do not post to much, but I do read most posts on this board. But this one sounds as though it pertains to something I know.
This so called vehicle, some are considering a Federal Taskforce Vehicle, seems to have a good description of the one setting in my driveway.
Agreed, that a death, by many standards does not constitute an emergency. This can often be clearly seen when a member of the Coroner’s Office responds to a Hospital for a death. Unless the death is suspicious in any way, I personally, do not usually respond in emergent mode. There is no point to. The body is in a controlled environment and can easily be maintained till my arrival.
However, the Coroner’s Office does respond to many accident scenes, as well as many other places throughout the county. These include, of course roadways, residences, places of business, etc. Many of these locations do warrant an emergency response by the Coroner’s Office. Many people do not fully understand what the Coroner’s Office does or even the power that it holds. We do not simply arrive, say a person is dead, and go home. If it was that easy, our service would not be needed, as the Medic in the field can clearly identify death. On the contrary, the Coroner’s Office is in fact a Law Enforcement Office, having many of the same rights and powers as the Sheriff. The Coroner’s Office is ultimately responsible for determining the manner of death, be it natural, accidental, suicide, or yes even homicide. In addition to this, the Coroner’s Office does many things that are left unseen by the Fire and EMS community as well as the general public. For one, we often take photographic evidence of a scene, that often presents the material from a different perspective than that the Law Enforcement community is gear toward, this evidence, can often solve a case, or be called into court by the DA. In addition to this the Coroner’s Office also collects various samples of a deceased for testing, such as Blood Alcohol, Vitreus Fluids, Urine for Drug screenings, etc. The Coroner’s Office must also work hand-in-hand with the Forensic Pathologist and the Police to determine an exact cause of death and manner. Believe it or not, it is not always very clear what a person died of or for that matter how. There are far more factors that come into play to list here. However, the information we gather is just as pertinent in “emergent” as that of the local police or the state police. While we are by no means the CSI show, we do have the resources to make things equivalent to the show happen.
Now on to the lights issue. As Derrick kindly posted above:
TITLE 75, THE VEHICLE CODE:
§102 Definitions "Emergency vehicle." A fire department vehicle, police vehicle, sheriff vehicle, ambulance, blood-delivery vehicle, human organ delivery vehicle, hazardous material response vehicle, armed forces emergency vehicle, one vehicle operated by a coroner or chief county medical examiner and one vehicle operated by a chief deputy coroner or deputy chief county medical examiner used for answering emergency calls, or any other vehicle designated by the State Police under section 6106 (relating to designation of emergency vehicles by Pennsylvania State Police), or a privately owned vehicle used in answering an emergency call when used by any of the following: A police chief and assistant chief. A fire chief, assistant chief and, when a fire company has three or more fire vehicles, a second or third assistant chief. A fire police captain and fire police lieutenant. An ambulance corps commander and assistant commander. A river rescue commander and assistant commander. A county emergency management coordinator. A fire marshal. A rescue service chief and assistant chief.
§4571. Visual and audible signals on emergency vehicles. (a) General rule.--Every emergency vehicle shall be equipped with one or more revolving or flashing red lights and an audible warning system. Spotlights with adjustable sockets may be attached to or mounted on emergency vehicles.
(b) Police, sheriff, fire and coroner or medical examiner vehicles.--
Police, sheriff, coroner, medical examiner or fire police vehicles may in addition to the requirements of subsection (a) be equipped with one or more revolving or flashing blue lights. The combination of red and blue lights may be used only on police, sheriff, coroner, medical examiner or fire police vehicles. Unmarked police and sheriff vehicles, used as emergency vehicles and equipped with audible warning systems, shall be equipped with the lights described in this subsection.
Some things that have not yet been posted.
SECTION 1231 of the County Code DEPUTIES The coroner may appoint one or more deputies to act in his place and stead, as he may deem proper and necessary. Such deputy or deputies shall have the same powers as the coroner. As amended 1973, June 27, P.L. 72, No. 31, Sec. 1
Now it is the stance of the Coroner’s Office that taken into account Title 75 and Section 1231, that grants any and all power of the Coroner to the Deputy Coroner in times when he is on duty or acting as the Coroner, that a Deputy Coroner may operate his or her vehicle with emergency lights and audible warning device.
As some one else stated, it all comes down to who is interpreting the law, and at what time of the day. In my opinion personal opinion and not that of the Coroner’s Office, I could care less weather I have a red/blue light and siren, according to Section 1240 of the County Code, pertaining to a body not to be moved, I have an unlimited time frame by which to report to a death scene and begin my investigation. So it all boils down to how long you wish to tie up resources to secure a death scene, be it a road way or business, etc. Or how long you wish to deal with the media or the family of an individual whose relative is laying dead in the middle of the roadway on the other end of the county, when the only on duty Coroner or Deputy is coming from the Valley.
Or as Larry stated, till the Medic screws up the Crime Scene, LOL.
As for running someone off the road, cant says I have ever done that while acting as a Deputy Coroner, but I am not the only member of the Coroner's Office, the same vehicle is also used for me to respond to Fire and EMS emergencies, with a different light configuration, in that case, I probably was responding to a “true” emergency, and why were you in the way to begin with?
Bryan Farr Firefighter/EMT Deputy Coroner, Bradford County
|
|
24wacker1
Full Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 77
|
Post by 24wacker1 on Apr 4, 2006 20:58:25 GMT -5
Nicely put Bryan, Thanx for the clarification on the vehicle code. Oh, and by the way, I can't say that I believe you when you say that you could care less if you had red lights and sirens. You are a major wacker. And any chance you have to run sirens, your gonna take. You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to me!
|
|
|
Post by GVEMS11 on Apr 4, 2006 21:06:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I have to agree with Twp. 3 on that one... I've ridden in the same piece of apparatus before too. ;D So I guess the next question IS................... What are the best lights, and what is better: LED, strobe, halogen... Just kidding. Seemed like a logical place to go though. And unlike many other whacker boards, no one has brought up this topic before, let alone repeated it over and over like firehouse.com, etc!
|
|
|
Post by flamethrower on Apr 4, 2006 21:19:16 GMT -5
Ok............so you answered that question. Now look at the new poll regarding emergency response in the Polls thread.
|
|
|
Post by Tech81 on Apr 4, 2006 21:20:00 GMT -5
Well as for which is better, LED, Halogen, or Strobe, that is another thread yet to be started, however, why not all three?
|
|
Thomas Carman
New Member
Executive Director/CEO Western Alliance, NREMT-P, Tactical Medic, Chief Deputy Coroner
Posts: 3
|
Post by Thomas Carman on Apr 10, 2006 16:45:49 GMT -5
Hi guys I don't think I have ever posted here before, but I do occassionally read the articles and I found this one pretty interesting. I sincerely hope that none of our coroners are running anyone off the highway and I don't believe anyone would. We have a great relationship with all of the fire, ems, and law enforcement agencies and it is always a pleasure working with all of you on any level. For the record I only run red lights and honestly I am getting to old to be a wacker so they don't get used very seldom but more power to those that do. May we all continue to be safe on all levels.
|
|