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Post by 911wacker on Jan 6, 2006 0:51:31 GMT -5
What is your opinion of rapid intervention, how often should it be used and how important is it to you?
Personally I feel that its a 50/50 split with most of you, from opinions that I have heard around the area. Some of you feel that its very important and you are glad to see when a group of people with specific training and experience are on the scene assigned to this task.
The others only joke that its a big waste of time and is a waste of firefighters on scene. Well I beleive this is because it usually takes a bad thing to happen before something becomes recognized in the fire service as a good thing. This would change if you have ever experienced a loss or near loss of your own and realized how unprepared most departments really are when a firefighter transmits a mayday, don't think yours is an exception.
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 9, 2006 21:17:50 GMT -5
I know more of you have an opinion on this one. Lets get some questions answered and improve upon that which only makes us safer.
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Post by flamethrower on Feb 17, 2006 4:20:58 GMT -5
Those who choose not to use this is some shape or form are playing chicken with the wrong end of the gun.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Feb 18, 2006 2:43:11 GMT -5
I THINK RIT IS A VERY GOOD ASSET IF ITS USED CORRECTLY. I KNMOW I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS WITH A FEW OTHERS AND IT WOULD WORK GREAT IF RIT COULD BE ON SCENE WHEN FIRE DEPARTMENTS FIRST ARRIVE. IT ALL GOES BACK TO OUR RURAL SETTING AND THAT EVERYTHING IS VOLUNTEER
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Post by chief322 on Feb 18, 2006 4:30:24 GMT -5
Thad:
Technically you do have RIT available as first in companies arrive. Isn't this what the two-in, two-out rule developed by the NFPA was for? Also, the incident commander could assign an incoming engine company the task of RIT.
I have my own personal opinions on RIT or FAST or Go-Team or whatever you want to call it. Having witnessed what can happen to the big picture when a firefighter goes down, and this was locally, it should be a must on all fire scene's regardless of size or scope.
More later....
Tim
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Post by 2Truck on Feb 18, 2006 13:51:36 GMT -5
A good rapid intervention team does more then just stand around. The crew should be periodically doing 360's of the fire building and acting as psuedo safety officer's for the OIC. They should also be opening up every possible escape route that a brother would take to get out of harms way. They should also make sure that every single side of the structure is laddered (every floor on each side if possible, don't be afraid to take the ground ladders off an Engine ), as well as establishing scene lighting around the entire outside of the structure. Sure doens't sound to me like the crew is doing nothing.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 19, 2006 0:12:42 GMT -5
Now ladies and gents, this is the type of discussion I envisioned some time ago when I started this thread. Now, every place that uses RIT, FAST or whatever has its own rules and SOP's etc. The theory is even when you don't have a team or engine assigned to this that your 2 in/2 out works the same, this is not usually the case. A back-up team that arrives with firefighting in mind 99% of the time will only be concerned with when is it going to be their turn in the heat and ashes. Been there, done that, seen it too many times to count and its dangerous now that I look back at it. Since the Valley RIT team was formed I have noticed an evolution since its infancy almost 2 years ago. The guys who do this have become proficient in many aspects of the operation and it shows. Yes I run with the team, but I have noticed when fighting fire in my own town while these guys are securing electric power, turning off gas and water lines, laddering the building, assessing escape routes and changing fire conditions, doing repeated size-ups and ensuring that someone is controlling acountability among other things. Its comforting to me knowing that all these things are going on, in essence these guys are nothing but saftey firefighters who get little respect. Yet I beleive it has improved the efficiency and effectivness of firefighting in general for our area.......................................stepping down off my soapbox for awhile.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 19, 2006 15:46:04 GMT -5
I forgot to mention the most important thing, it has improved saftey by great leaps & bounds. Besides the fact that if or when something were to happen you have a handfull of trained personnel in place to effect a rescue.
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Post by flamethrower on Feb 20, 2006 20:21:51 GMT -5
IT ALL GOES BACK TO OUR RURAL SETTING AND THAT EVERYTHING IS VOLUNTEER This doesn't mean that you can't take measures to have a crew in place. Automatic mutual aide on a box alarm or something like that will have them on scene that much quicker. Use a neighboring department with an engine or rescue on the initial dispatch.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Feb 21, 2006 1:37:43 GMT -5
ok flamethrower i see your point, but what happens when that neighboring department doesnt have the proper training to do this task? im sorry some departments in this area just dont have the training. and what happens when the neighboring department is 20 miles away? by then the structure could be on the ground
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Post by flamethrower on Feb 21, 2006 2:07:27 GMT -5
In most cases a down, lost or otherwise disoriented firefighter would occur in the first few minutes OR long after the initial attack was initiated. This means that you may have to wait a few minutes for them to get on scene but they will be there.
Thats why you put a mutual aide department on your box that is trained and capable, within a reasonable distance and have them auto disptched on the first alarm. For example, Canton is close to you.......If they need the training I am sure they would be willing to get it and have you do the same for them. This could happen with niegboring departments all across the county!!
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Post by herrick3 on Feb 21, 2006 8:14:20 GMT -5
I always thought it would be nice to have a couple more RIT teams in the county. I think that all depts. should have one available to them, should they want it. I will admit, that after reading a few of the other posts here, that I did not realize how much the RIT team actually did. I guess when I first heard about them, I was under the impression that they were just a group standing by in case a firefighter went down or became disoriented. Never do stop learning, do we?
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Post by 921batt on Feb 21, 2006 8:43:38 GMT -5
Manpower, manpower and more manpower is what it takes. We recently conducted Firefighter down training in my city and here is what we found. On the average it took 12 Fire-fighters (three companies of trained professionals) between 18 to 22 minuets to locate, package and deliver the downed Fire-fighter to safety. These drills were performed in one of our vacant high rises on the lower floors with no elevators. Residential occupancies would be less time of course (not too much) but the manpower should be the constant. This training was a REAL EYE OPENER!
I would figure a structure response is what is necessary to accomplish this task! I know this may seem overkill to a lot of you guys but the question you need to ask is what are we worth. Everyone in your department should be R.I.T. trained and all your Chief officers should develop a plan to stage at least 1 company as a preliminary R.I.T. team and be prepared to escalate from there. This is our City's S.O.P.
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Post by herrick3 on Feb 21, 2006 9:42:48 GMT -5
Yes, manpower is the key. However, unlike the cities, we don't have the manpower all the time, unfortunately. It would be great if we did, but for the younger generation, there is no incentive to become a volunteer, especially when it requires so much time in training. If there were a way to be able to be compensated for lost wages so that people would be able to take time off from their jobs to train, it might help a little. I could probably go on and on, but I won't.
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Post by 921batt on Feb 21, 2006 10:06:00 GMT -5
Jason, I understand the manpower issue fully. Even paid departments face manpower cuts. We lost 1 ladder and 2 engines in 2001. In the volunteer world the problem is even greater. No compensation and lost wages, yes incentives should be given. What is the answer, I don't know. I just know what it takes to rescue a Brother or Sister and we must commit to our resources to that end. Whatever it takes. Lets work on grooming the youth of today to volunteer time to the community. When and if I retire to your community I will make this my personal mission. Joe
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