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Post by 2Truck on Feb 21, 2006 17:38:29 GMT -5
After moving away from the area I can see the manpower issue from both sides of the fence. Manpower is an issue EVERYWHERE. We ran a working fire a week and a half ago and had many of our first alarm units understaffed which prompted additional resources being called. We need to remember to be proactive and not reactive to this issue. When the defecation hits the fan its going to get bad and it's going to do so real fast, ask anyone who has been involved in a true mayday event. We have to put our pride away and not be afraid to ask our neighbors for help.
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Post by Medic13 on Feb 21, 2006 17:39:41 GMT -5
...but for the younger generation, there is no incentive to become a volunteer, especially when it requires so much time in training... As one of those younger generation guys, I disagree. The incentive for training is being a valuable part of a good fire department, and payment is knowing that you just saved the structure, or a life. The reason I'm a volunteer firefighter isn't because I want "real" incentives, nor am I a full-time EMT to get rich (that's for sure). It's all dedication. But back to the main topic. Yes, it would be nice to have a team immediately on scene whose sole purpose is RIT, but like many have pointed out, it's not always an option. That's where training comes in. All green tags, hopefully with a minimum of essentials, should be able to rescue a downed firefighter. Using 2 in 2 out, that second team of 2 should be able to complete a rescue successfully. If they can't, they probably shouldn't be interior firefighters, and therefore, the first two firefighters wouldn't be in the structure in the first place. It all boils down to training and manpower. My $.02
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9Wacker1
Full Member
Wacker - and proud of it!
Posts: 54
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Post by 9Wacker1 on Feb 21, 2006 22:11:36 GMT -5
I not sure if I agree completely with Pete or not - I'm still trying to think about it all (sorry, bud, long day today). But there you both make good points - especially concerning the need and the manpower issue.
I personally think it is necessary and I want to get my RIT training. Someone on scene should be ready to respond immediately if something goes wrong. To me that's just scene safety and common sense. I mean, if I got in a situation that I couldn't get myself out of - I'd want to know someone else was headed my way to get me.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Feb 22, 2006 4:24:21 GMT -5
i will have to agree with pete, as one of the young members of the fire service in bradford county, in my opinion there shouldn't have to be incentives to be a volunteer. like pete said the incentive is knowing that you saved a families house, cut a critical patient out of a vehicle and put them in the medevac or even rescue some little girls cat from a tree. both departments that i run with 75% of our members that are active are the younger generation. i have experienced that you might have to go out and do some recruiting. now you may think to yourself, why should we do that they should come to us? that just doesnt cut it anymore. these people are willing you just have to find them. the younger generation thinks, well why would they want me they have all the experience that they need? as all of us know thats not true. i try to do all the training i can from vehicle rescue to structural burns to tying knots in my spare time. if we had neighboring departments with the proper training that would be great. in troy our neighbors are conton to the south, south creek to the north, mansfield to the west and north towanda to the east. now 2 out of those 4 departments are 20 miles away, if we had boxes and put them on there it would take them a 20 to 30 minutes to get to us. by that time its too late to set up some kind of team to stanb by and do the duties rit teams do. i guess out of the 10 municipalities and the 189 sq miles that we cover its hard to do this
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Post by 921batt on Feb 22, 2006 7:31:05 GMT -5
Thad, I gathered that you are one of the younger guys. The youth of the Fire Service is the foundation of recruitment. I am sure you have a couple of friends that may be interested in Fire or EMS. Groom em! You are the future, now shape it. Joe
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Post by herrick3 on Feb 22, 2006 8:14:00 GMT -5
I agree that there shouldn't have to be incentives for our younger generation. I am also part of the younger generation, and I enjoy doing what I do for the most part. It does get a little frustrating at times, but hey, you just have to deal with it. Some of the kids just out of school just don't seem to have the desire or interest to give up their own time to do stuff if there isn't anything in it for them. They don't seem to realize that there are a couple of little things called satisfaction and pride that would warrant giving up some time. Unfortunately, our dept. doesn't allow junior members, for whatever reason I don't know, so it makes it that much harder to groom them into volunteerism, much as I'd like to.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 22, 2006 22:16:47 GMT -5
That's where training comes in. All green tags, hopefully with a minimum of essentials, should be able to rescue a downed firefighter. Using 2 in 2 out, that second team of 2 should be able to complete a rescue successfully. If they can't, they probably shouldn't be interior firefighters, and therefore, the first two firefighters wouldn't be in the structure in the first place. It all boils down to training and manpower. My $.02 I would have to disagree with you Pete, 2 firefighters is nothing but a drop in the bucket during a true rescue operation. The whole point of my post is that companies should be setting aside more than 2 back-up personnel in the RIT, FAST or whatever role you want to call it. It will take a minimum of 4 firefighters to BEGIN a rescue operation. I know that in the initial 5 minutes you may not have 4 people available, but as they arrive on scene they should be designated as these people can do other tasks as discussed in earlier posts. And I agree that some type of RIT or FAST training should be given to all interior personnel, even if its done in house until a state class or whatever can be obtained. You really won't begin to understand the labor intensive operation of rescuing a downed brother until you have the learning in place.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Feb 23, 2006 0:23:51 GMT -5
my department doesnt allow junior members eitheir jason. back a while ago at contest they decided to get alittle tipsy. so since that day they are no longer aloud. but back to my point, they are there, like the captain said, " we are the future". jason you must know some young guys that are not in your department, talk to them put alittle intrest in them
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Post by chief322 on Feb 23, 2006 4:32:02 GMT -5
Scott;
I concur that the two-in / two-out rule doesn't replace a true RIT. The valley area is very lucky to have a dedicated, trained team available almost immediately. Now I know that Ridgebury has a team as well, but when a box is hit in their local, is a fully functional team available to them immediately? Using the two-in / two-out until the RIT arrives does give the IC the flexibility of having this resource available until "help" can arrive.
This is similar to having a truck company on you boxes. Just because the truck isn't there yet does truck company op's not be done or started?
I have often stated that it is my opinion that we have RIT available in all of the "sectors" of the county. Having only two in the northern part is good, but doesn't cut it for the central, south, east and western parts.
Just my opinion...... and we all know what opinions are!
Tim
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 23, 2006 16:01:50 GMT -5
With box alarms and the ability to pre-plan mutual aid (box alarms), I see no reason that simple measures would or could not be taken to assign this task as resources are available for each district or area. This is a simple measure that can be taken that will not always be optimal, but is better than is usually done. In my humble opinion this is a VITAL task that is overlooked all too often!!
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Post by flamethrower on Feb 23, 2006 21:35:21 GMT -5
In the perfect world those of us in the fire service would require self rescue and a Rapid Intervention style training for all of our firefighters. As it is the volunteer fire service in general operates with bare minimum, if any training at all.
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Post by Medic13 on Feb 24, 2006 3:28:52 GMT -5
As one of the younger guys, I'd love to see manditory national, state, or regional standards in training and performance, possibly similar to EMS standards and protocols (although a few services in this county don't even follow those). Despite that it would probably decrease recruitment and retention, I think those who are dedicated would be far better firefighters. This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion among the older generation though. Maybe R&R is more of an issue than training and performance... I dunno.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 24, 2006 18:06:46 GMT -5
I too would be for some type of training standard with a system much like the EMS con-ed system. I too beleive that this would make the service better as a whole by RAISING the bar so to speak with training, education and skill development.
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Post by fire01 on Jun 8, 2008 7:33:28 GMT -5
if propley used a rit team is very important and can make a diffrence
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batt4
Junior Member
There is no skating through your career!
Posts: 23
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Post by batt4 on Jun 8, 2008 20:32:38 GMT -5
Ya betcha fire01.
R.I.T. is a key element in any emergency and can make a huge difference. Now let's talk about staffing and training. All companies should be trained in these tactics but one company ( 1 officer and 2 firefighters not including the M.P.O.) is ill equipped to effect the removal of 1 downed and trapped firefighter. It takes the coordinated efforts of at least 3 companies to effect: locating, packaging and removal of 1 downed firefighter.
This is not an easy task to coordinate especially with limited manpower so staffing said team at an incident becomes a logistical concern. In the controlled chaos of a normal structure fire with barely enough manpower to perform suppression, to address a Mayday in a timely fashion is a near impossibility. These actions have been performed in the heat of battle but not without putting members in extremely hazardous situations. Which is not our goal here! I never wanted to have to address a brothers family member about their loved one's heroic efforts.
In other words at your basic structure fire you better have a couple of extra companies available as R.I.T. teams.
And let me talk from experience here. My department's S.O.P. was to have 1 engine company respond as R.I.T. at any working fire and this company was to report to the I.C. Let me tell you when these guys are standing next to you as you direct actions you can feel a sense of; when are we going to see action. It was like having 4 male dogs chained up just out of reach to a female dog in heat. Ya gotta shake them off your leg! It's tough to discipline yourself to inaction.
The Batt
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