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Post by Medic13 on Mar 31, 2006 9:16:19 GMT -5
Before anyone gets their panties up in a bunch, you need to look at this as a patient care issue, not paid vs volunteer, or any sort of "us vs them" war for that matter.
It has been argued by a small handful of people that when ALS is dispatched along with a BLS rig, their purpose is for ALS intercept only, not transport. It's no secret that some volunteer services have serious issues getting out the door, and it's not uncommon to have more than one patient at an MVA. Yet these people argue that if the BLS rig doesn't get out or if there is more than one victim, the patient (along with a full crew and perfectly good ambulance) must wait on scene, typically at least 30min in this county, for the nearest BLS mutual aid. As ridiculous as it sounds, there are a small handful of people who believe this should be strictly enforced. Now to be honest, neither ALS service I run with has ever done this, as we're all morally and legally obligated to do what's in the best interest of the patient. Some people in the EMS community just don't see it that way. We've even had patients complain that they don't understand why they have to wait for their local ambulance to arrive even when they do get a crew. They don't care about the politics... they just want to go to the hospital. All they see is a crew in front of them and an ambulance outside. I see the politics, but aren't we here for the patient? Opinions, please.
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9Wacker1
Full Member
Wacker - and proud of it!
Posts: 54
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Post by 9Wacker1 on Mar 31, 2006 10:31:13 GMT -5
I agree - it's a patient care issue. When it comes to saving lives, the territorial boundaries should be forgotten. I can see waiting a minute or two for the BLS crew IF they are almost on scene - but NOT 15-20-30 minutes! For one thing, the Golden Hour come into play (really gets thrown out of the game!) but for another you open your company up to all kinds of legal issues. Timely treatment and transport is our responsibility (BLS or ALS), it's what we were trained for, and if we aren't doing it - we'd better have a real good reason. I don't have any problem letting ALS take a patient if I know we don't have a crew, the rig is on another call, or the situation demands immediate transport. It's just good patient care.
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Post by 911wacker on Mar 31, 2006 12:42:38 GMT -5
Timely treatment and transport is our responsibility (BLS or ALS), it's what we were trained for, and if we aren't doing it - we'd better have a real good reason. And just to note, it should be a real good reason that will stand up in court if needed. Even though a few people think that ALS services are out to take over the volunteer area's, this is just not true. But the fact remains it is slowly happening due to staffing and response issues. So you have to ask yourself: How do we make it better and solve these issues? More recruiting or whatever........I don't have the answer.
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Post by blueeighty8 on Mar 31, 2006 12:55:48 GMT -5
Wait on scene so someone else can transport so you don't hurt someones feelings? Shall I laugh now, or wait? I know a local crew that won't go enroute to the hospital until ALS gets on scene.. It's not a transport vehicle, but wtf, why wait?
I'd tell the agency that's b-scratching to KMA, and if they want to fight it, sue.. I bet they lose. Plain and simple, if you can't get out.. at all.. ever.. Step aside. Don't let the patient die while you're screwing around waiting for someone to decide if the patient is important enough to get out of bed to help.
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Post by navyfirefighter on Mar 31, 2006 13:51:44 GMT -5
Sorry If I step on toes but................
I really don't care who wants me to stay... if I have a ambulance ALS or BLS the Patient gets put on the litter and we roll we don't wait if we meet ALS in route cool we got help! If the BLS rig didn't make it, they get recalled! To bull shit around on calls isn't what where here for! Get in, get out, get the job done and be safe. After arrival the rig should be there for no more than 10 Min's. ( over Christmas I was home for a 2 year old Cardiac arrest. Time from when me and my partner arrived until transport was 7 Min's me and my partner were QRS, BLS arrived 5 Min's after we did, ALS meet us at the end of the drive way!) If you screw around your defeating your purpose. We are here to stabilize and transport.
My feelings "Don't cry if I put your fire out, and don't cry if I treat your patient" We aren't here to please anyone we are here to save lives and property!
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Post by flamethrower on Apr 1, 2006 13:16:35 GMT -5
It has been argued by a small handful of people that when ALS is dispatched along with a BLS rig, their purpose is for ALS intercept only, not transport. I am willing to bet the farm that the State DOH would beg to differ on this issue.
It's no secret that some volunteer services have serious issues getting out the door, and it's not uncommon to have more than one patient at an MVA. Yet these people argue that if the BLS rig doesn't get out or if there is more than one victim, the patient (along with a full crew and perfectly good ambulance) must wait on scene, typically at least 30min in this county, for the nearest BLS mutual aid.Agian the DOH would certianly beg to differ on this one. Not to mention the fact that anyone who makes this statement is full of Poo Poo and should be hung with a large rope from an even larger tree.
They don't care about the politics... they just want to go to the hospital. All they see is a crew in front of them and an ambulance outside. This is why you do what your supposed to and everyone is happy except for those who are being down right petty about territory issues. And honestly, do you care what those poeple think as long as you are doing the right thing?!
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GVEMS30
Full Member
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein
Posts: 75
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Post by GVEMS30 on Apr 2, 2006 10:38:54 GMT -5
This is the first I have heard of this in Bradford County. I have tales of ALS intercepts in other counties by fly cars that were not patient transport able sitting and waiting for a BLS truck to show up. As for me if I get to a location ahead of a BLS unit, I am not waiting. Patient care comes first, if they are not there (or reasonably close) when it’s time to go, in the MICU we go.
If someone actually has a problem with that, they should look at why they are in EMS in the first place.
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