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Post by 911wacker on Dec 20, 2003 21:50:38 GMT -5
Just a thought on many accidents I have seen where the vehicle was never cribbed before an extrication commenced. Is that one of them things that we only learn in class but never do in the field?? I think that many times when this happens, it is because of tunnel vision (with good reason most of the time), how do we discipline ourselves to do this all important task?
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Flynn
Full Member
Often imitated; Never Duplicated
Posts: 45
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Post by Flynn on Dec 20, 2003 22:22:18 GMT -5
How about establishing riding assignments! Make those who are riding, responsible. What are our rigs, glorified taxi's? Each riding position should have a pre-determined assignment (of course the on-board officer could easliy change it depending on situation). This could apply to both Fire & Rescue operations. You only need a tool operator, powerplant operator and a team leader. This leaves 3 or more to stabilization.
Why just stabilize on entrapment calls. I was under the impression that all vehicles containing a person involed in the PIA (personal-injury-accident) are considered to have head/neck injuries, until determined otherwise. Isn't this the reason for stabilization of the vehicle by use of cribbing?
Shouldn't all engine companies carry cribbing? Its cheap and the main function of the engine company is to support the rescue and ems company functions.
Cribbing on non-entrapment/confinement calls will all but ensure that it is done on the big one (entrapment). Similar to utilizing the ICS on the BS calls, practice makes perfect.
Lastly, which is preference, box cribbing or step, handy-man jacks or steps w/tire deflation?
Tim
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nt2
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by nt2 on Dec 20, 2003 22:46:59 GMT -5
I can only speak for dept 25. but we crib just about every thing that still has a patient in it. As a dept that provides mutual-aid to several depts as first due rescue. We are recalled alot with incidents with no entrapment but injuries. my personal feeling these vehicals should be cribbed as well. I can see recalling for the real minor stuff, but you here it all the time were rescues are recalled were you have no entrapment but the patient has neck and back injuries. All the training ive had these are incidents that there should be cribbing used. I feel this is another training issue. I belive that as officers we should have enough training to recognize this situation.
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911Mom
Full Member
Welcome to the real world!
Posts: 60
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Post by 911Mom on Dec 21, 2003 1:07:21 GMT -5
I have to agree 100% with cribbing. A long time ago we had a fatal and the car was on a downhill slope. One patient was partially under the car. He wasn't trapped under it but I remember looking at one individual who had came with the rescue and asked him to crib up the car so it didn't roll down the hill. He had the cojones to look at me and say that they had only been called for lighting. This was a long time ago and things have gotten much better but cribbing is still very under utilized!
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NT1
Full Member
Administrator
Be part of the solution not the problem.
Posts: 80
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Post by NT1 on Dec 21, 2003 16:23:01 GMT -5
Wrecked vehicles and terrain can be very unpredictable. As mentioned, if the patient is still in the vehicle cribbing should be used. I believe it makes a safer environment for the rescue personnel as well as the patient. Nobody likes supprises on scene.
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Post by 2Truck on Dec 21, 2003 20:03:57 GMT -5
In my opinion cribbing a vehicle is part of securing the vehicle (disconnecting the battery, taking care of fluid leaks, etc....) At UAFD the MINIMUM stabalization that we do for a car is chock the wheels, that's provided that there are no patients in the car and it is on all four wheels. It is our SOP that all vehicles overturned or on their side will be cribbed regardless of if there are patients in the vehicle. By doing so it makes the scene safer for everyone that is on scene.
Tim brought up a good point about riding assignments, the only thing that I would see wrong with riding assignments is that there are way too many people that go to the scene in their POV's therefore making the rigs respond light (understaffed). If we could get everyone to go the station and ride a rig to the scene then riding assignments would be a good idea.
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Post by 911wacker on Dec 24, 2003 16:30:30 GMT -5
I think that Jazz is onto to something, many of times rescues are recalled when patients are still in the vehicle. I was trained that as long as someone was in the vehicle you cribbed it!! Not to mention the times that a patient is not entrapped, but confined so too speak. There are many times that a patient may benefit even if we can get them out another way, for instance just having rescue pop the door instead of dragging the patient out the other side of the car. Although many things have to be considered, patient condition will play a major role in whether or not time can be spent waiting 5 minutes to pop the door. Just a thought!! I too agree with 23truck, having come from a department where you responded to the station unless you had to drive past the scene, things seem to go much smoother once you arrive with a fully staffed piece. Not to mention the fact that far fewer vehicles will be blocking the scene and causing hazards along the roadway, reduced freelancing, and better acountability. I hate getting to the station and having a engine or rescue that holds 5-6 poeple leave as I walk past it with just a driver or 2 on it.
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