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Post by canton1 on Dec 16, 2003 2:47:41 GMT -5
How do we get it so that we can have a PSP Fire Marshall when we need them?? I know that this is a real sore subject to every chief that has ever had to wait. I do understand that it is not the TROOPERS fault.
What do we do next?
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atpd2
Full Member
Posts: 29
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Post by atpd2 on Dec 16, 2003 12:36:17 GMT -5
Pa State Law dictates that the PSP handle fire investigations in all municpalities EXCEPT 1 class, 2nd Class and 2A Class cities (Philadephia, Pittsburg, Scranton.) I have found that for the most part, many of the fire chiefs have as much or more training as the PSP FM. This is nothing against the PSP FM's individually, the whole system sucks. Why not mirror the NY system of County Fire Investigation Teams. These first started out as a joint FD, LE venture but have evolved into a system where the Fire members of the team do the cause and origin part of the investigation and the Police members do the other aspects of the case once the cause is determined to be arson.
Another thing I have noticed is that Chief's tend to call PSP FM's rather quickly. I think that with training and experience, most Chiefs could handle 80-90% of the fire investigations themselves. Fewer calls to the FM's means less overtime (that's one of the concerns) and if the volume of calls was less, you may get a quicker reponse to the real "who dun its".
Like I noted above, this system is required. Maybe some of the State Fire Organizations could get working on this at the State level so the laws are changed to at least give us the option of who does the fire investigations. EMS seems to have a strong lobby in Harrisburg, maybe its time that Fire established some clout.
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Post by SIERRA 14 on Dec 16, 2003 23:00:59 GMT -5
I can't speak for PSP in respect to their unavailability when requested to investigate a structure fire but I am sure that they aren't just saying no because they don't want to come. There are other circumstances I am sure.
I feel it is important that I do say a few words in respect to wildland fires though.
The Bureau of Forestry is by law required to investigate wildland fires. Every wildland fire within the Tioga Forest District that occurs on Commonwealth Property, appears to be incendiary or when reimbursement for extinction costs is requested will be investigated by a representative (99% of the time that will be me) from the District providing we are aware of the fire. I would like to see 100% of the wildland fires investigated in the District, but the District does not have staffing to make that a reality. There may be occasions in light of recent budget constraints where a fire won't be investigated until normal business hours. I apologize in advance if and when this happens for any inconvenience. Don't let that deter you from calling though. Bradford County has my pager and home phone numbers. I will at a minimum return the call to Bradford County even if I am unable to respond at that time.
Now if there is a request for suppression resources (whether it is manpower, equipment, etc.) the budget issue DOES NOT have affect on that situation. We WILL respond. That is a whole different ballgame.
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Post by canton1 on Dec 17, 2003 0:55:59 GMT -5
Well as Brian said. I do understand it is not the specific troopers fault and I do not blame them. I do BLAME the people at the state level and anyoen that is will to sit by and let it happen. We have a job to do and it can not happen if there is not help for us. Why should we stop the fire if no one is going to support us. It does ot matter rather it is a WILD fire or a STRUCTURE fire.
All I ask is that we get to talk to the person that will be doing the investigation. I think that way we can plead our case and give them the circumstances around the incident. I know for me I can call the Fire Marshall from Lycoming county Directly (no DESK, NO OD, NO BULLSHIT) and tell him what we have and make a joint decision as rather/when it will be investigated.
That is all I ask. I think we really need to address this on a higher level. I dont care if it is either agency. If Brian is not aloud to talk to us and discuss it them we need to talk to his boss as a large group and get this fixed.
The Troopers that I have talked with a so sick of the crap and in my opinion will start to show in the field units sooner or later. Why put it out if not one cares to investigate it on a timely manner, and i bet it will transfer over to the forestry division also.
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Post by SIERRA 14 on Dec 17, 2003 7:43:35 GMT -5
I understand your concerns completely Kim. I have felt the same frustrations from the volunteer fire fighter standpoint as well.
The best way to get a hold of me is to go through the County. I could give out my pager and home phone number to each chief but I feel it is more advantageous to just go through the county. If that doesn't seem to work by all means I will change the way to get a hold of me. It has seemed to work very well this way so far. On a side note I have almost 100% pager coverage for the entire state.
When you request a wildland fire to be investigated for whatever reason I will, like you said talk to the IC or relay through county. This will be done to assertion whether it is imperative to my investigation to respond immediately or if it is possible to wait until we have available resources. Obviously if it is suspected as an incendiary cause with a possible suspect I want to get there as soon as possible.
Most likely if there is one wildland fire in the district there will also be one somewhere else. So it may not be a budget issue at all. It could very well be that we are engaged on another fire conducting suppression activities.
I believe we (forestry) are in a little different situation than PSP. The majority of the time wildland fires occur during daylight hours. We have 7-day coverage in spring fire season and when conditions warrant it other times of the year, so there is a high likelihood somebody is already working.
FYI - I do have available a K-9 unit through PSP for accelerant detection. The K-9 handler told me at training session to call him anytime night or day. Obviously I am not going to call them for every fire, but if there is a pattern of suspected incendiary fires started with an accelerant I WON'T HESITATE to call for the K-9. Don't get me wrong this is not a failsafe it is just another tool to add to the toolbox.
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LT106
Junior Member
Pre-Burn is Good!
Posts: 15
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Post by LT106 on Dec 17, 2003 21:04:09 GMT -5
It is to my understanding that since Rendell took over, he has been "slashing" OT from PSP, Penn Dot and others (e.g.:Trooper gets dispatched at 22:40 for a crash that ends up having a DOA on scene or circumstances requiring a lengthy investigation. The trooper must return to the barracks prior to his hsift ending and another trooper is then sent from HQ to pickup the pieces) Does this make sense? No!! AND LIKE YOU SAID IT ISNT THE TROOPERS FAULT. Someone correct me if Im wrong on my post Im just going on the info I keep being told down in my area.
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Post by canton1 on Dec 18, 2003 0:43:37 GMT -5
THe problem is that this started before Rendell. He appears to be a good excuse for most financial issues but I can't buy it this time.
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Post by SIERRA 14 on Dec 18, 2003 8:43:35 GMT -5
Yes budgets have been reduced. Overtime is a topic of great concern. Like I said I can't speak for PSP. Last year we (Forestry) had to request approval for scheduled OT to our immediate supervisor then to our District Forester then to the State Forester's office. This was for EVERY Forestry staff member in the Commonwealth. As far as emergency OT was concerned. We still had to request the same approval process after the OT was worked. Ultimately the State Forester's Office had to approve all OT.
This raised some training issues for me last year. I had several requests for training sessions that I was unable to conduct due to the OT issue.
I believe OT has a large factor but as Kim stated this isn't a new topic. I have heard this topic ever since I joined a volunteer fire dept in Tioga County in 1988.
I would say the first step would be to talk to the Corporal at the Towanda Barracks or whichever Barracks covers your respective area. Like I said before I am confident that it isn't that the troopers just plain don't want to come. There are other mitigating circumstances.
I assure you that wildfires will be investigated. The investigation may not start at the time of the incident but a representative from the Tioga Forest District will investigate them. There is some added pressure for us to find out the cause of Wildfires since the state absorbs extinction cost when a responsible party is not found. By law the person responsible for causing a wildfire pays for those extinction costs.
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Post by canton1 on Dec 23, 2003 23:19:57 GMT -5
Please oh please dont say anything. We might offend someone or make a difference!!!
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