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Post by canton1 on Dec 2, 2003 2:12:55 GMT -5
Wow, I can't belive I have missed all this good stuff for the past few days. This has really got things going.
I guess I must put in my very small two cents.
It is all common sense either way you respond. I am not gonna get into the argument of lights and sirens as even in my department we dont agree on this. It is simple though, use your damn HEAD. It makes no differnce rather the light is on or off if you drive like a idiot it is wrong.
You screw up in mine and you lose your right to a light, same as radio traffic. USE YOU HEAD !!
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NT1
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Be part of the solution not the problem.
Posts: 80
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Post by NT1 on Dec 2, 2003 19:57:36 GMT -5
What is common sense. One thing I have experienced is that you can generally not count on common sense. What seems simple to me might seem complex to another or vise versa. How about a county wide SOP/SOG for all departments and all calls. In these you would have common sense. All departments would operate off the same page. If you wanted a tanker you would get a tanker (hopefully with water, Sorry Tim had to find some way to get that in there) Not a tanker with 10 pov's behind it. I know they would not be practical in all cases. They would be a good place to start unless otherwise directed.
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Post by canton1 on Dec 3, 2003 0:42:52 GMT -5
What is common sense. One thing I have experienced is that you can generally not count on common sense. What seems simple to me might seem complex to another or vise versa. How about a county wide SOP/SOG for all departments and all calls. In these you would have common sense. All departments would operate off the same page. If you wanted a tanker you would get a tanker (hopefully with water, Sorry Tim had to find some way to get that in there) Not a tanker with 10 pov's behind it. I know they would not be practical in all cases. They would be a good place to start unless otherwise directed. God you cant even get them to come to the chiefs meeting and do what we vote on there there. I had one chief say "they cant run my department" Remember when we got rid of "cars, brush WAGONS, m's , and tried to not have PR's and PT's". That did not work. We have done radio classes for a few departments and the same thing continues with some of them. How will we get them to listen about how to run lights. Hell, I dont even agree with half of the stuff. What is a Tanker----A Pumper tanker or a Tanker What is a Engine----A Pumper rescue or a Engine Shouldn't it be what ever the primary purpose the apparatus was built for ?? Does it matter what it is called as long as it hauls water if that is what we want or call for is on its way. You can call it what you want just send the one with the most water if a tanker is called. On my box that calls for Trout run--That is what I will get is a engine because that has more water than thier tanker.
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Post by 911wacker on Dec 3, 2003 7:56:19 GMT -5
I believe that Mr. Stackhouse put it very nicely!We used an old saying where I grew up "common sense ain't to common". Certian calls just don't warrant an emergency response, EVEN IF THE TONES DID GO OFF!! The emergency is on the part of the caller not the calltaker, this means becuase the general public thinks they have an emergency doesn't really mean that it is. For those of you who think that red lights and sirens give you the right to speed and drive like a bunch of fools, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY MISTAKEN!! Red or blue lights are a PRIVELAGE and should be treated as such, no excuses, the fire service doesn't need any more bad press than we already get from time to time.
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Post by Brian Barnes on Dec 3, 2003 10:28:33 GMT -5
I just couldn't take it any longer. Having grown up in Bradford County and having my fire department roots there, I am naturally drawn home and am genuinely concerned about what goes on. I have many good friends at many local departments. With that being said, I cannot simply sit and read anymore. Something struck a nerve, perhaps it was the whole "lack of common sense" issue. I certainly hope the public doesn't get this to board, because I am embarrassed by the immaturity of some of my "brothers"!
Now, for the issue at hand... just to reiterate... your pager going "beep-beep" doesn't meen you get to go"woo-woo". Can I put it any simpler? If you don't have the common sense to distinguish an emergency call from a non-emergency call, then what type of leadership example are you to your department!
I think that this issue would most easily be solved by a county sog, as previously recommended. In Cumberland County (not perfect, just different) we are told specifically if it is a non-emergency response. If not stated "non-emergency," then it is assumed emergency, unless it is obviously not an emergency - trees, etc. If there is a question, Headquarters is asked when responding. ("Headquaters" is how we call the fire dispatcher in Cumberland County - EMS is "Cumberland Med" and PD is "County") If there is still question, it is up to the company officer riding the seat or the chief on the air.
There are always gray areas, but I think they are probably best sorted out at the comm center with the dispatchers who are actually on the line with the caller and hear the info "first hand" - most of the time. Here's a typical Cumberland County emergency dispatch:
**PAGER TONE** "Upper Allen Township, South Market Street and Gettysburg, auto accident, unknown injuries, Box 23-02, Engine Company 23." **SIREN TONE** "South Market Street and Gettysburg Pike, auto accident, unknown injuries, Box 23-02, Engine Company 23 is due, 1832."
Now here's a dispatch for a non-emergency response:
**PAGER TONE** "Upper Allen Township, South Market Street and Gettysburg Pike, non-emergency response for debris removal, Box 23-02, Engine Company 23." **SIREN TONE** "South Market Street and Gettysburg Pike, non-emergency response for debris removal, Box 23-02, Engine Company 23 is due, 1832."
See the difference? That way it is clear non-emergency = no blue lights, no red lights, no sirens.
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Post by GVEMS11 on Dec 4, 2003 13:22:22 GMT -5
your pager going "beep-beep" doesn't meen you get to go"woo-woo". Can I put it any simpler? If you don't have the common sense to distinguish an emergency call from a non-emergency call, then what type of leadership example are you to your department! Correct you are! The EMS world has realized this, and thus the regional prioritization protocols, i.e. Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo. Why would it be so much more difficult for the fire side to devise a similar system, whereby trees down, pumping details, etc are dispatched as non-emergency runs? Base it on EMD, where dispatchers ask a series of questions, use some of their better judgement when needed, and prioritize as needed.
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Nick
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OIF Veteran 2006
Posts: 46
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Post by Nick on Dec 8, 2003 20:30:36 GMT -5
Also, Red lights and siren are for Chiefs only, Red/blue combo for FP Capts. And BLUE for everyone else. That's a negative on the red/blue combo for FP Captains. Only vehicles owned by the department, and designated for fire police use are allowed to run red/blue combos. POV's are a no-go.
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Post by Brian Barnes on Dec 9, 2003 9:12:05 GMT -5
That is interesting... I did not know that. I thought red/blue was reserved for PD use only.
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