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Post by 911wacker on Dec 17, 2006 13:00:01 GMT -5
Under what authority does the EMS region officials arrive on a scene and take over command of an incident when command (EMS) is already established and things are being handled? Is this a new rule and if so where could I find the legislation thats written supporting this?
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24wacker1
Full Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 77
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Post by 24wacker1 on Dec 17, 2006 14:14:07 GMT -5
I'm curious to hear the answer on this one.
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Post by smilesalot35 on Dec 17, 2006 14:53:48 GMT -5
I am curious to hear the answer to this one as well... Wonder who has the answer.. Good question .. Think this question has been on eveyones mind..
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Post by 911wacker on Dec 17, 2006 23:40:37 GMT -5
To the best of my knowledge, these officials are supposed to act as a resource and advisor to the incident commander. This would be similar to the fire coordinators and EMA directors role to a fire chief during a fire/disaster incident.
And just before this go's any further, the regional EMS officials are a VALUABLE resource when used properly. But in my opinion they have overstepped there bounds and walked on alot of toes lately. Lets just make a few more incidents larger cluster F**ks than they really need to be.
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Post by k3bm on Dec 18, 2006 1:14:06 GMT -5
I dont believe they have that authority in Pennsylvania.
You could call the Department of Health to confirm this, if anyone from our region council ( Lycoming, Sullivan Tioga ) comes in downstairs before I leave work this morning, I will bounce the question off them also.
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Post by Robert Repasky on Dec 18, 2006 9:11:09 GMT -5
I've got an idea Scott, if you want to know something why don't you go directly to the council and ask them? Why do you always feel the need to post something like this on here just to get things stirred up?
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Dec 18, 2006 10:33:51 GMT -5
well Rob in my personal opinion, i realy dont think scott is trying to stir things up. i do believe this board is to ask questions and get feedback. i would like to know about this also, this has caused more bad than good. i really dont see how an EMT can com in and take command from a Medic.
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Post by 911wacker on Dec 18, 2006 10:43:00 GMT -5
Below is several sections of the EMS act which I have cut and pasted from the state website, I still don't see anything regarding this matter.
And to answer your question Rob, this board is for discusion of issues. If I had not posted, you think someone else may not have done it anyway. I think it would still be here.
§ 9. Regional emergency medical services councils
(a) Purpose.— Regional EMS councils shall assist the department in carrying out the provisions of this act. Each regional EMS council shall adhere to policy direction from the department.
(b) Organization.—For purposes of this act, the organizational structure of a regional EMS council shall be representative of the public, health professions and major private and public voluntary agencies, organizations and institutions concerned with providing EMS in the region, and shall be one of the following:
(1) A unit of general local government, with an advisory council, meeting requirements for representation.
(2) A representative public entity administering a compact or other areawide arrangement or consortium.
(3) Any other public or private nonprofit entity that meets requirements for representation.
(c) Duties.—Each regional EMS council shall, if directed by the department:
(1) Assist the department in achieving the Statewide and regional EMS system components and goals described in section 4.
(2) Assist the department in the collection and maintenance of standardized data and information as provided in section 6.
(3) Prepare, annually review, and revise as needed, a regional EMS system plan for the EMS region the department has designated and contracted it to serve.
(4) Carry out, to the extent feasible, the Statewide and regional EMS system plans.
(5) Assure the reasonable availability of training and continuing education programs for EMS providers.
(6) Provide necessary and reasonable staff services and appropriate and convenient office facilities that can serve as the EMS region’s location for the planning, maintenance, coordinative and evaluative functions of the council.
(7) Establish a mechanism to provide for input from facilities and EMS agencies in the EMS region in decisions that include, but are not limited to, membership on its governing body.
(8) Establish, subject to department approval, regional EMS medical treatment and transport protocols consistent with Statewide protocols adopted by the department. A regional EMS council may also establish, subject to department approval, additional medical treatment and transport protocols. The regional protocols are not subject to the rulemaking process.
(9) Advise public safety answering points, and municipal and county governments, as to the EMS resources available for dispatching and recommend dispatch criteria that may be developed by the department, or by the regional EMS council as approved by the department.
(10) Assist the department in achieving a unified Statewide EMS system.
(11) Designate a regional EMS medical director, and establish a medical advisory committee and a quality improvement committee.
(12) Develop a conflict of interest policy, subject to department approval, and require its board or advisory council members, officials and employees to agree to the policy in writing.
(13) Perform other duties, as assigned by the department, to assist the department in carrying out the requirements of this act. (d) Regional EMS medical directors.— The department shall consult with the regional EMS medical directors in developing and adopting EMS protocols and may consult with them on any matter involved in the department’s administration of this act.
§ 5. Duties of department
(a) Duty.—It shall be the duty of the department to assist the development of local EMS systems, to plan, guide, assist and coordinate the development of regional EMS systems into a unified Statewide system, and to coordinate those systems with similar systems in neighboring states. (b) Authority.—The department shall be the lead agency for EMS in this Commonwealth. The department shall have authority to:
(1) Maintain and coordinate a program for planning, developing, maintaining, expanding, improving and upgrading EMS systems throughout this Commonwealth.
(2) Establish, by regulation, standards and criteria governing the award and administration of contracts under this act for the initiation, maintenance and improvement of regional EMS systems.
(3) Require the collection and maintenance of patient data and information in EMS patient care reports by EMS agencies.
(4) Collect, as deemed necessary and appropriate, data and information regarding patients that come to an emergency department and are not admitted, and patients admitted to a facility through the emergency department, through a trauma center or directly to a special care unit, in a manner that protects and maintains the confidential nature of patient records. Such data and information shall include essential information only, shall be reasonable in detail and shall be collected pursuant to regulations issued by the department. The data and information shall be limited to that which may be used for specific planning, research and quality improvement purposes and shall not be duplicative of data and information already available to the department.
(5) Prepare and revise a Statewide EMS system plan in accordance with the provisions of section 10.
(6) Define and approve training programs and accredit educational institutions for EMS training of EMS providers.
(7) Provide technical assistance to local government, EMS agencies and other entities for the purpose of assuring effective planning and execution of EMS.
(8) Administer contracts authorized under this act and grants pertaining to EMS.
(9) Establish minimum standards for, license, register and inspect EMS agencies for compliance with this act and regulations adopted under this act.
(10) Maintain a quality improvement program for the purpose of monitoring and improving the delivery of EMS.
(11) Promulgate regulations to establish standards and criteria for EMS systems.
(12) Integrate all trauma centers accredited pursuant to section 7 into the Statewide EMS system.
(13) Recommend to 911 and other EMS agency dispatchers protocols with respect to the type and quantity of EMS resources to dispatch to emergencies.
(14) Investigate, based upon complaints and information otherwise received, violations of the act and the regulations adopted under the act and pursue against offenders disciplinary actions, injunctions or referrals for criminal prosecution.
(15) Investigate complaints related to the delivery of services by trauma centers and forward the results of the investigation to the accrediting entity with a recommendation for action.
(16) Enter into agreements with other states to enhance the Statewide EMS system, which may include, as appropriate to effectuate the intent and purposes of this act, the recognition of EMS resources in another state that do not satisfy fully the requirements of this act or regulations adopted pursuant to this act. (c) EMS protocols. — The department shall establish and revise as needed criteria and protocols, including bypass protocols, for the evaluation, triage, treatment, transport, transfer and referral of patients to ensure that they receive appropriate EMS and are transported to the most appropriate facility. Regional EMS councils shall not be eligible for contract funds or State EMS operating fund disbursements unless they assist in ensuring the regional implementation of the criteria and protocols. The protocols are not subject to the rulemaking process.
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Post by GVEMS11 on Dec 18, 2006 21:23:16 GMT -5
"(4) Carry out, to the extent feasible, the Statewide and regional EMS system plans" This could be interpreted to include the MCI plan, and thus respond to MCIs as a resource for the execution of the Regional plan.
Now, my thoughts on command: First Responder, EMT, Paramedic... Doesn't matter what your certification is as far as command goes. It has nothing to do with scene command. The scene commander is not and should not be making patient treatment decisions. The command officer is making sure that the situation is handled appropriately. The other arriving providers are the people that are responsible for providing patient care. Command's job is making sure that there are enough people or resources there to be able to provide appropriate care!
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Post by Medic13 on Dec 19, 2006 3:55:43 GMT -5
I deleted my last post because there was a dispute as to who said what to who on the particular call I was indicating. Nevertheless, I think it has been established that the EMS council should be an additional resource on scene, not necessarily as automatic EMS command on any incident the individual decides to respond to. We'll leave it at that for now.
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Post by chief322 on Dec 19, 2006 15:23:55 GMT -5
I know this is fire related (me being an NFT in the EMS service), but I have had the fire coordinator respond on quite a few jobs and incidents where he has acted in a resource capacity and it worked out fantastic. I do not know the circumstances nor do I want to, but its a shame that those in the position to offer resources and become a positive in a usually bad situation complex the issue and turn it into a negative situation.
Just my thoughts and ramblings, per the usual!
Tim
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Post by pcartwright on Dec 23, 2006 17:08:57 GMT -5
FYI: We had an MCI at Wysox EMS one day and this same person came to the scene when asked about them taking command they we were told "We do not and cannot take command" If you are not doing it right we will find someone in your organization to take command or call for nearest other EMS provider to take command this is not our job.
Just my 2 cents.....
Patrick
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Post by 911wacker on Dec 23, 2006 19:48:23 GMT -5
I have decided to lock this thread, in light of other recent events. I feel that there is no reason to discuss this any further and anyone who has any questions/concerns may PM me.
Thank You for your replies in a proffesional manner.
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