911Mom
Full Member
Welcome to the real world!
Posts: 60
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Post by 911Mom on Jan 29, 2004 14:16:09 GMT -5
To some people a unit "is just a driver" and we don't need to know if a driver is responding. In my world (volunteer) a unit is a CPR certified additional pair of helping hands. A unit increases my crew by one more person who is capable of assisting on scene. Instead of having an EMT or FR driving they are freed up to be in the back. I can't speak for every volunteer corps in the county, but in mine I want to know if I have that extra pair of helping hands.
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 31, 2004 11:27:35 GMT -5
Maybe a "unit" is valauble, however do they need to be acknowledged? Under the current guidelines a "full crew" would be a minimum of a FR and EMT, so a "unit" responding would mean nothing to County as they are only obligated to page until a full crew is obtained (ie two medically trained personel). I'm not saying that they shouldn't utilize radio's, but only under certian situations, this would cut needless radio traffic by maybe 20%.
VOLUNTEER OR PAID, I STILL PUT MY PANTS ON ONE LEG AT A TIME SAME AS THE REST OF YOU. ;D
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Post by CMTMedic on Jan 31, 2004 14:35:42 GMT -5
First of all, most of us paid people are also volunteers. Second, the problem isnt that one or two people call on the air. It is that Multiple units, techs, and FR's call on the air. The other problem is that they just don't call enroute, at times everyone seems to need to inquire where everyone else is and their ETA to the scene, ect. Sometimes this is necessary information, somtimes it just eats up airtime. We are right back to using common sense then, aren't we?
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 31, 2004 19:14:55 GMT -5
WELL PUT DOCTOR ;D
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911Mom
Full Member
Welcome to the real world!
Posts: 60
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Post by 911Mom on Jan 31, 2004 21:10:39 GMT -5
"cars" are used on fire frequency "units" are used on EMS You pose a very good question, Do we really need to know if a driver is enroute to the station?? Personally I think not I was referring to the above quote because I don't recall mentioning acknowledging them. As far as cutting unecessary chatter, how about "responding momentarily" and "approaching the scene" and do we really need to know every "brand name" EMS line officer responding to a hot call? I could go on forever about "unecessary" radio traffic after 40 hours a week of sitting and dealing with it. Which is probably why my pagers and radios are on alert and the scanner down when I get home because there are more important things to worry about than unnecessary radio traffic.I could point out radio stupidity for each and every responder in this county (myself included), but what good would that do except to piss alot of people off? NO ONE and NO ORGANIZATION is immune and shouldn't act like they are. As far as putting pants on one leg at a time, yeah we all do it that way, just some people think that their pants are made of a little nicer material than others.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 1, 2004 7:08:28 GMT -5
Maybe county should start only acknowledging "need to know things" such as "5 ambulance 1 responding"
No more "5 ambulance 1 standing by awaiting crew" etc.
and my pants are made with Cotton, how about yours?
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Post by jenn13t8 on Feb 4, 2004 10:15:15 GMT -5
I agree with Sue- a unit is a valuable assest, especically during the day time hours when staffing is at its lowest. It good to know that you have someone else on the way to help out, or bring the rig or whatever. As to acknowledging all units on the radio, speaking as both a dispatcher and a field unit, once your hear from a full crew, then everyone else does not need to be acknowleged. If a unit responds first, then he should be answered. If he responds and there are already 5 EMT's res, then he doesn't. And just to satisfy my own curiosity, how many EMS associations let their units go directly to the scene? I know our standing rule is units go to the garage to get the rig- they can't do any assessments or vital signs (granted they can do CPR if needed) but why have them respond to the scene pov?
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3unit2
Junior Member
Posts: 24
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Post by 3unit2 on Feb 4, 2004 16:02:01 GMT -5
First off, Thank You , jenn13t8 and 911 mom for giving us "units" some credit... Besides being (low life scum of the earth), that should only be seen and not heard ,causing unneccessary RADIO CHATTER, as some people have stated . 1 (Do we really need to know if a driver is enroute to the station?? Personally I think not)2 (Maybe a "unit" is valauble, however do they need to be acknowledged?) The answer to these questions are? YES!!!
Now, 13t8, to answer your question on (units ) going to the scene? Depends on the person.. I have and do go to the scene. Depending on some factors(like time of day, location, type of call,etc.) If I feel I can help and not hinder - the call!! I know what I am capable of doing in EMS.This is not my first day in EMS and FIRE. You have to know your personnel's capabilites. And treat them accordingly..
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Post by CMTMedic on Feb 5, 2004 0:54:50 GMT -5
Not trying to say that units and all the other members of our organizations are not important, far from it. I have had units bail me out more times then I can count on calls both here in Bradford County and in other places I have been in. The point is that no matter what your training the person operating the radio needs to decide if their transmission is truly important or not. This decision needs to be made with everyone in mind including other services who may need the radio waves and the dispatchers who have to sort the whole thing out sometimes (Like reports of slippery roads when multiple departments are already out on crashes ). If there is already a full crew and the ambulance is responding is there still a need to hear from additional people unless additional assistance is requested? I just don't see the need. Feel free to respond and help your community, but be considerate to the other people who have to share the airwaves.
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 5, 2004 10:32:13 GMT -5
Well I don't think that anyone referred to Units as "low life scum of the earth", Nor did anyone say that they were not important either. The subject of this thread is "RADIO CHATTER" and the idea was that more often than not these people make no difference in the way other personel respond, NOT ALWAYS but sometimes. How could we reduce needless radio chatter?? * County could only acknowledge the first two medically trained personel that complete a "legal full crew". *Squad Captians, the EMS Council and the 911Coordinator can start a discipline policy on abuse of the system as it needed (since the county owns and operates the liscence for the radioo system). *We all know that it's only a certian few providers who abuse the airwaves, single them out and make sure these folks know that they sound like a baboon humping a football!! Shame has a wonderfull way of making people use the large bony structure on their shoulders for more than a wind tunnel. I can tell you that many agencies have several radio's issued, and that many of these agencies have no problem with needless radio chatter. I will use some fire departments as an example like Sayre, sorry Rob. These folks have 3 Chiefs and I believe 9 line officers and multiple fire police with radio's and the only people you here on the radio 99% of the time are the 3 highest ranking officers. All it takes is a little discipline and knowledge to make it work!!!We all know that common sense should be enough but in reality, ITS NOT. Because common sense ain't to common.
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Post by canton1 on Feb 10, 2004 4:00:02 GMT -5
Speaking of Chatter........ Why do we say "Show me on scene" I don't understand why when it should be easier to say "Bradford County -- is on scene" instead of "-- to Bradford County show -- on scene" Where do you want the 911 center to show it ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Are the responding of "CARS" ever gonna go away??
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Post by MonroetonTwo on Feb 10, 2004 15:50:15 GMT -5
Kim....I sure hope so!! For my sake and yours!! But I got beat up pretty bad putting the "cars" under EMS...Hehehe sorry guys
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Post by EMSBrat on Feb 10, 2004 23:23:53 GMT -5
Here's my bratty opinion. In general, it would help a lot of issues if the stations in our area limited the number of folks responding at all. For any call (ESPECIALLY mva's and other hot calls), it's not necessary to have 5 units, 5 fr's, and 5 techs respond. Even if there is a patient to transport, one ambulance is only going to have one patient, and only one EMT is necessary to care for one patient. There are always plenty of fire/rescue guys at accident scenes, so there's no need for extra EMS manpower there. On a medical (assuming the station can even crew...which is an entirely different discussion), if the crew needs extra manpower, all it takes is one quick request to county, and the tones are out again. The point is, in order to cut down on unnecessary air traffic, we should cut down on unnecesary crew. No matter what the status, I feel all responding members should call in...but also, no matter what the status, a member should consider how necessary it is that he/she responds if there is already a legal crew. As for proper radio use, it should be up to the Captains and Managers to assure that their members arent abusing the privilege, and that they know what they're doing. Like blue lights, radios aren't necessary for all members to use. Just my opinion.
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Post by Firegirl on Feb 11, 2004 21:38:58 GMT -5
just cause I have to be a smart a**...........Canton 1 doesn't it "show" on the computer screen??? ;D
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Omega
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by Omega on Feb 13, 2004 4:47:05 GMT -5
For any call (ESPECIALLY mva's and other hot calls), it's not necessary to have 5 units, 5 fr's, and 5 techs respond. Even if there is a patient to transport, one ambulance is only going to have one patient, and only one EMT is necessary to care for one patient. There are always plenty of fire/rescue guys at accident scenes, so there's no need for extra EMS manpower there. On a medical (assuming the station can even crew...which is an entirely different discussion), if the crew needs extra manpower, all it takes is one quick request to county, and the tones are out again. The point is, in order to cut down on unnecessary air traffic, we should cut down on unnecesary crew. No matter what the status, I feel all responding members should call in...but also, no matter what the status, a member should consider how necessary it is that he/she responds if there is already a legal crew. "UNNECESSARY CREW" How do we judge what is "unnecessary crew" unless we are on scene and know what is happening. One ambulance does not always have only one patient, one patient sometimes needs more than one EMT, and one ambulance always needs more than one person. As far as the extra EMS manpower on accident scenes, what if something goes wrong during rescue operations or clean up. That one EMT for that one patient just had their priorities changed to triage for a MCI. We are not there just for the structure that is on fire or for the patient that is hurt, we are there primarily for our fellow volunteers. I am not going to leave rescue and fire personel with no help if something were to go wrong, while I transport a patient to the hospital. I agree that once a legal crew has been acknowledged on the radio and someone has been designated as being responsible for rolling the rig that everyone else should just "shut up." By no means am I saying they should not continue to respond to the scene. You never know when you are going to need the extra man power. If someone were to then state to County that they need the manpower, then those responding could acknowledge that they are already in route or, by that time, possibly on scene.
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