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Post by Chris VanDruff on Nov 27, 2004 20:39:48 GMT -5
This may be tough. Not real sure. I know how I feel about a vehicle on its side. High wind stable ground I guess. No entrapment patient is already out of the vehicle, and firefighters leaning all over the vehicle for no real good reason.how about something as simple as wheel chocks on our appuratus when we arive on scene. I dont know like I said this is a real question for me one of our EMT's went over to look in the windows and leaned on the vehicle I told her to stay away from the vehicle since there was no reason to be in the hot zone at that point. Is this an unstable vehicle I think yes. Lets here what you guys think? I know if there was work to be done that vehicle would have been stabalized so yes it is an unstable vehicle. but when do we need to stabilze or just tape off the perimeter if it needs to remain in that position and keep everyone out of the zone.
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GVEMS30
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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein
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Post by GVEMS30 on Nov 29, 2004 12:32:47 GMT -5
You did the correct thing by clearing the hot zone of unnecessary personnel. If they had a good reason (curiosity is not a good reason) that would be another matter.
It would to take a chapter from Common Sense for Dummies explain some this behavior. No patient in the vehicle, no reason to be in the vehicle? Who can you rescue if someone has to rescue you? Oh wouldn’t that vehicle look nice with you pinned under it? ;D
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Post by blueeighty8 on Nov 29, 2004 13:32:37 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]one of our EMT's went over to look in the windows [/glow] Perhaps the ems person would have been looking for signs of damage to the interior... ER personel like to know if the windshield is broken directly infront of the occupants; steering wheel damage, etc...
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GVEMS30
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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein
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Post by GVEMS30 on Nov 29, 2004 20:06:39 GMT -5
Good point! That would be a good reason.
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Post by Chris VanDruff on Nov 29, 2004 22:10:12 GMT -5
Hey Chris you pose a very good point and in fact that is what she said she was doing. Now a little more info the patient was already loaded into the first due rig this was a MA for us we were not transporting nor was she riding in. I am not trying to come off perfect not at all but I also explained to her that that was the rescuers job to do an inner and outer circle survey and hopefully relay that info to the providers. I didnt chew her but I would just hate to see someone get hurt unneccesarily.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Nov 30, 2004 17:28:46 GMT -5
I THINK EVERYONE IS BRINGING UP GOOD POINTS, LIKE LARRY F. SAID" OH WOULDNT THAT VEHICLE LOOK NICE WITH YOU PINNED UNDER IT?" WE DONT WANT TO SEE ANYONE UNDER. MY OPINION IS THAT WITH HIGH WINDS LIKE WE HAD SATURDAY( 50 MPH GUSTS) IT WAS A VERY UNSATABLE CAR.
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Post by Firemedic on Nov 30, 2004 18:44:30 GMT -5
It all boils down to discipline and saftey, both of which are far to uncommon in emergency services in general.
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Post by valleytech36 on Nov 30, 2004 18:47:38 GMT -5
Yes, Chris you did the right thing and if the EMT didn't have the proper PPE on they shouldn't be in the HOT ZONE. Any fireman with proper PPE on, can look in for signs of damage to the interior by looking in thru the windshield when the vehicle stabilized or when the vehicle is on all wheels. We can't have people just snooping around when a vehicle is unstable. I like to know if the steering wheel is bent or is there is any intrusion into the patient area. If I was unable to get the information from the vehicle, I would just give the hospital the report that there is possible injuries from the mechanism of injuries from a rollover.
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Post by charlotte_ff on Nov 30, 2004 21:02:16 GMT -5
PPE is not going to keep a vehicle on its side that is not stabilized from "pinning you under it."
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911Mom
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Post by 911Mom on Nov 30, 2004 21:29:47 GMT -5
I would like to know the EMT's reasoning for doing something stupid like that. The patient was in the rig already and I have faith that the crewmembers on the transporting rig already determined any intrusion or steering wheel damage, either A. by looking in the windshield B. asking some of the firemen around C. asking the patient, who from my understanding had minor injuries or D. all of the above. Thank you Chris for pointing out the errors of her ways. I am sure you were alot more tactful than I would have been. ;D
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Post by valleytech36 on Nov 30, 2004 23:42:22 GMT -5
a
No, PPE is not going to stabilize the vehicle. But when you took your PA BVR course, first things, they taught you to have your PPE on and to set-up your hot & cold zone.
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Antique
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If I put a " Q " on my walker will it make it a Fire Truck
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Post by Antique on Dec 1, 2004 1:13:32 GMT -5
After the hazard was identified, was it secured until removal to avoid an acciden, or were the people with PPE the stabilization. Even with no patient the hazard needs to be taken care of until removal.
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GVEMS30
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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein
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Post by GVEMS30 on Dec 1, 2004 12:00:41 GMT -5
If we assume the EMT in question had no good reason to be in the hot zone… This is a teachable moment; this person is removed to a safe area and at an appropriate time in a professional manner educated or reeducated as to the correct and safe way to do things. On another point when is the last time you (any EMS provider) were at a MVC and took a look at a vehicle yourself or took a damage report from another person (FF/Rescue Tech ect.)? We can’t do everything by ourselves.
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Antique
New Member
If I put a " Q " on my walker will it make it a Fire Truck
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Post by Antique on Dec 1, 2004 16:00:39 GMT -5
When was the last time, alomst every MVC in my overstayed career, probably 95% or better. If I don't someone else on the crew does or we get it from Rescue or F.D.
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Post by Chris VanDruff on Dec 2, 2004 0:07:36 GMT -5
Yes Sue I was very tactful the EMT was my wife I had no choice. As for reasoning lack of training. she hasnt had any rescue training this is why I feel that training is so valuable for both fire/rescue and EMS. No the vehicle (hazard) was never stabalized as to avoid any accident it was left unstabalized untill the wrecker got on scene. you all bring up great points. I do have BVR and Larry thats exactly what I did I removed her from the hazard and on the drive home I tried to educate. Luckily we are both pretty level headed and can critique each other and learn from each other. I kick myself in the but for not pointing out the firefighters to thier officer I did fail in that aspect. I guess I get caught up sometimes in the thinking that its not my scene or I dont want to step on any toes. We are all responsible for each other out there thats our brothers and sisters we are working with. I need to remind myself of that sometimes. thats why I go over every call in my mind to see what I should have done differently or better. I havent been at this for as long as somebody like say antique. I value everybody here for that reason between the classes I take and the people I talk to I try to learn every day. Thanks everyone for being here. Even those that do nothing but criticize they still make me think. Thanks for letting blabber on sometimes it reminds me of my duties if I type on here.
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