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Post by canton1 on Jul 22, 2004 1:50:54 GMT -5
I post this after another METH class. The big question I think we need to ask ourselves after all the new things happening. How to we protect ourselves???
As near as I can tell is we need to ALL talk more about these subject and SHARE INFO good or bad.
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Mansfield2
Junior Member
Jim Welch, Mansfield Hose Company Chief
Posts: 23
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Post by Mansfield2 on Jul 22, 2004 7:50:37 GMT -5
Training, Knowledge, CAUTION!!! Is the scene safe? Who knows anymore, there are so many additional hazards to look for : addition air bags which have not deployed, hybrid vehicles, alternately fueled vehicles, weapons, explosives, animals. Caution... Caution... Caution... Wear your PPE and protect yourself as much as possible, be aware of your surroundings and have a escape route. Think Safe, Be Safe, Go Home....that's the goal!
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Post by PSPFIREMARSHAL on Jul 22, 2004 8:31:41 GMT -5
Kim, you bring up a good point. again I suggest that the chiefs association appoint a sub committee to look at this issue. The longer we wait and the more times that brother firefighters(and ems people) continue to run up to vehicles and into residences there is an increasing possibility that we may lose one of our own. training for meth is just like training on radio procedures, we can do all the training and hold all the classes we want, but if the departments don't put rules and regulations in place, was the training any good to us? just food for thought.
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Post by PSPFIREMARSHAL on Jul 22, 2004 8:34:42 GMT -5
just one more food for thought item. ppe is a good idea, but when you dealing with meth and it's subcomponents, ppe isn't going to do a thing for you if you don't have scba on . food for thought!
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NT1
Full Member
Administrator
Be part of the solution not the problem.
Posts: 80
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Post by NT1 on Jul 22, 2004 11:24:46 GMT -5
If the situation is unknown we should dress for the worst. We can always downgrade after the assesmant is done. It may be to late to dress up but you can always dress down. "Who is number one?"
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Post by 911wacker on Jul 22, 2004 11:43:16 GMT -5
Its amazing the places that you go and see people (white hats) not wearing PPE, which in turn sets a very bad example to the indians with a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. Wearing the proper equipment everytime is only the first step in keeping yourself safe, because there are way to many unknowns these days in and around these scenes!! Responders should be more observant of the surroundings and people when at any scene, look for things that don't fit, people who look out of place, items that are not common for the place you found it. It's no longer just simply showing up and putting out the fire or cleaning up the accident scene, and we are the first people to be exposed as things unfold. Be safe and use your melon!! ;D
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Post by 2Truck on Jul 22, 2004 19:11:32 GMT -5
Most have spoken about wearing PPE, if we do not properly train on basic fire department functions then we will be in no way ready to handle any incident. While proper PPE is a good start to being able to handle an incident, THINKING and assessing your surroundings is going to get you even further. Unfortunatley, most people do not even know that this board exists and therefore will not benefit from any of the knowledge shared on here.
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Post by canton1 on Jul 23, 2004 1:00:27 GMT -5
If the situation is unknown we should dress for the worst. We can always downgrade after the assesmant is done. It may be to late to dress up but you can always dress down. "Who is number one?" So what you are saying Gary is the for EVERY and I mean EVERY MVA we need to go the the vehicle with FULL SCBA and PPE. No exceptions. Because all calls are truely unkown till we get on the scene and asses it ourselves.
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Jul 23, 2004 1:01:05 GMT -5
LIKE EVERYONE SAYS WEARING PROPER PPE IS A GOOD THING BUT IN A CASE WITH A PORTIBLE METH LAB IN THE TRUNK OR BACK SEAT HOW MANY DEPARTMENT ARE FITTED WITH THE PROPER PPE FOR THAT INCIDENT MAYBE IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING TO START LOOKING INTO THE PROPER PPE. ;D
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Post by canton1 on Jul 23, 2004 1:01:49 GMT -5
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Post by canton1 on Jul 23, 2004 1:04:33 GMT -5
just one more food for thought item. ppe is a good idea, but when you dealing with meth and it's subcomponents, ppe isn't going to do a thing for you if you don't have scba on . food for thought! Do PSP have SCBA and PPE for all the cars and troopers. See this is my point. what is the answer. We ALL have to do it not just one group. What is the answer? At any time, anyone of us may be the first unit on scene!!!
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Post by PSPFIREMARSHAL on Jul 23, 2004 9:03:39 GMT -5
Do PSP have SCBA and PPE for all the cars and troopers. See this is my point. what is the answer. We ALL have to do it not just one group. What is the answer? At any time, anyone of us may be the first unit on scene!!! I'm not looking at this from a psp standpoint, I am looking at this from a firefighter standpoint. you are comparing apples and oranges. Yes at any one time anyone may be on scene first. Why should we discuss what cops should do? Do cops sit around and discuss what we should do? isn't it cyoaf(cover your own ass first)? as you well know, psp usually isn't on scene, usually an approximately eta of 30 minutes and by then a preliminary determination of safety has already been established. My point is that we all sit and talk about it on this board and it doesn't seem to go any further, and eventually it is going to bite someone. I don't know if there is a clear cut answer, but if this is as important as people are making it, then you think some type of meetings would be arranged and attempt to get some guidelines established. like i said before, we can sit around and talk about it for weeks on end, but if nothing comes out of it, what good was it?
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NT1
Full Member
Administrator
Be part of the solution not the problem.
Posts: 80
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Post by NT1 on Jul 23, 2004 14:37:06 GMT -5
Kim That will never happen. I understand what you are saying. It can't hurt having some people in full ppe for a mva. I'm not talking about the general car off the road but maybe the car is off the road because the thing is full of anhydrus and the driver is enjoying the nice aroma of the stuff. Unknown is the key word and I agree all are unknown until the first assessment. I still believe you can always take the stuff off if the situation warrents.
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Post by chief322 on Jul 23, 2004 17:26:26 GMT -5
Very good debate, very good postings and excellent point of view by all. Each has a good perspective on "what we should do".
Looking at the question of the poll, as written in the header above, I believe protect to the best of the ability of the known.
Case in point: Towanda Borough, Pine St., Structure fire in the 300 blk. This was my last call as a CFO. My company was assigned above the fire for extension/horizontal ventilation. I ordered my Captain to take his crew interior (TOG w/ SCBA in service) and my LT to ladder the windows. I then decided to check interior. I leather lunged it to the second floor landing and then donned my mask. Once control was marked did we find out that this residence was a meth lab. I had breathed what I thought was class A combustible material when in fact that was the furthest thing from the truth. Communications, training and common sense should be the rule. I failed in all three. I didn't take the unknown into consideration, and ultimately I could have paid a price.
You can policy and procedure to death, but unless you get individuals, like myself, that won't learn until it takes a "mishap" to change the mindframe, it won't happen. That is unless those policies and procedures are met with strong support from those that are in the position to make these. They should stand headstrong for these rules and accept what consequenes come from having to enforce these rules, without bending or breaking.
Good poll, tough answer!
Tim chief322@epix.net
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Post by 911wacker on Jul 24, 2004 12:35:45 GMT -5
Good point Tim, I am willing to bet that everyone here has overlooked a standard policy regarding PPE or saftey at one point or another. We all become complacent with the routine calls and just when it gets routine someone throws a curve at ya. - Case in point, an automatic fire alarm in a comercial structure that you respond to at least 3-4 times a year. I bet that nobody here gets excited, or even you might R & R (rollover and reset your pager) that call. But back in my home department about 4 years ago we had one of those calls and as usual we responded engine and tanker with 3 firefighters and the Chief because nobody wants to waste their time and WOW did we get a surprise when we rolled up on the Town Hall and saw heavy black smoke showing from sides 3 and 4 of the building. Talk about a one legged man in an ass kicking contest, it seemed like forever until the Calvary showed up. - Okay, long story but you can see where I'm going with this one, right!! 99% of the time you can get away with it, and that 1% will get you right by the posterior everytime. ;D
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