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Post by Chris VanDruff on Jan 19, 2005 14:53:17 GMT -5
I dont remember who but someone stated something about line and how they passed a NYSP in Welsburg they have been in Ridgebury more than once to back up our 9 p retired tech 1 did ask for a closer agency and was denied so apperently that wasnt important. Im not bashing anyone or pointing fingers I hope that wasnt directed at me Im just stating what I saw and what went wrong and how we are going to fix it. They voted me in a tech 3 must be they respected me that much so I dont think anyone of them would take this as a bashing. In fact I have been in contact with most parties involved and a meeting has been scheduled for Friday evening. thanks again. Andy we will get some training done hopefully we can make a difference.
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Post by canton1 on Jan 20, 2005 6:13:17 GMT -5
I have talked to someone from the incident and I have kinda came to one conclusion. That there needs to be a sit down meeting with all agencies involved. From what I am seeing adn hearing that there was ALOT of breakdowns from FIRE, EMS and the 911 Center.
I am starting to here that the Center is blaming field people (SO wrong), It was a big mess on ALL parts. There should be a meeting with 9T1,Director 1, and Ridgebury 1 and then a meeting with all those involved.
I would hope that all can sit and discuss this and not have it happen again. Just like the Rescue incident that I started before, NOW is a great time to fix a problem between all agencies involved.
We can do all the protocols we want, but until WE all start using common sense it will not matter.
It just seems there was a break down at the Comm Center, Then with the FIRE units on scene, and the EMS units not listening to a COMMAND officer. I would hope that some are not being stupid because it was a women making the calls (or should I say trying to make them). Something needs to be done internally with the people that did not listen and when into the scene especially the Commander.....
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Post by canton1 on Jan 20, 2005 6:27:06 GMT -5
Isn't the purpose of this site supposed to be Information, Education and Training ? The mistakes made would be much better served if they were addressed constructively and not by naming names, pointing fingures and bashing those involved. Even though most have disclaimers that your opinions are yours alone, you still are representing your company every time you post. I kinda agree with you. I do make my statements on my behalf. Yes I do represent Canton Fire but, I and everyone else is entitled to thier own opinion without it reflecting on our respective departments. If someone can not seperate the two things, they need to look again I guess.
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Post by Chris VanDruff on Jan 20, 2005 8:38:23 GMT -5
Chief canton I also truelly hope that had nothn to do with who was making the calls. I dont think comm center screwed up they gave the info they had. I have talked to tech 2 again who feels she is being bashed I told her take what she can use and leave what she cant. Comm cenetr gave her a box number across from the golf course she didnt realize untill she was right on top of it yes I told her she maybe could have driven past and staged above. we are learning we will have a meeting friday night and it will be handled thanks for your inputs it has helped.
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Post by Chris VanDruff on Jan 20, 2005 8:42:11 GMT -5
have talked to someone from the incident and I have kinda came to one conclusion. That there needs to be a sit down meeting with all agencies involved. From what I am seeing adn hearing that there was ALOT of breakdowns from FIRE, EMS and the 911 Center.
I am starting to here that the Center is blaming field people (SO wrong), It was a big mess on ALL parts. There should be a meeting with 9T1,Director 1, and Ridgebury 1 and then a meeting with all those involved.
I would hope that all can sit and discuss this and not have it happen again. Just like the Rescue incident that I started before, NOW is a great time to fix a problem between all agencies involved.
We can do all the protocols we want, but until WE all start using common sense it will not matter.
It just seems there was a break down at the Comm Center, Then with the FIRE units on scene, and the EMS units not listening to a COMMAND officer. I would hope that some are not being stupid because it was a women making the calls (or should I say trying to make them). Something needs to be done internally with the people that did not listen and when into the scene especially the Commander.....
Kim wich incident are you refering to. If its the other incident the first one Im glad you brought it up just so people know that it happens on fire as well as ems we arent perfect its like I stated earlier we ahve two unsecue scenes and niether one of them went properly. nothing has even been mentioned about the other call it was funny how quickly the other nights call got jumped on so quickly.
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Post by canton1 on Jan 20, 2005 21:35:40 GMT -5
I want to say real quick. I made a mistake in my last post. I did not mean to say the QRS was at the last ordeal. THey were at the first one that was on Saturday night.
MY MISTAKE
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Post by canton1 on Jan 21, 2005 0:26:52 GMT -5
I dont think comm center screwed up they gave the info they had. Chris, As I stated before, I think that the HEADS of the organizations need to get together to discuss it. I think that from what I have been told there is stuff that the field units dont know and items that the dispatchers/911 Administration dont understand about where the call was and just how things went down in the field!!!
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 21, 2005 7:33:46 GMT -5
Somehow I am thinking that even if a meeting occurred, they would still walk away nearly as confused. Its just like the old saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". People need to have a desire to learn and change before they can have a productive attempt at doing so. Not to knock anyone in particular, but I just don't see it happening. And with the exception of Chris and maybe Tech 9, the rest of them will most likely do the same thing when it happens agian.
Besides, if they would read the new protocols that they were provided with we wouldn't have these problems.
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9Wacker1
Full Member
Wacker - and proud of it!
Posts: 54
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Post by 9Wacker1 on Jan 21, 2005 8:47:15 GMT -5
I guess we'll see what happens tonight at our meeting. Hopefully we all walk away with a better understanding of how to avoid this in the future. As far as the "old dogs/new tricks" - maybe...but maybe there will be enough of us that can make a difference for the safety of all.
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Post by 911guy on Jan 21, 2005 10:20:40 GMT -5
I just HAVE to interject something. I would like to see someone brave enough to bring this up and actually try it for a month or two. WHAT IF.....everyone went to the station - PERIOD? Only exceptions are not concious/not breathing calls. I know it was stated earlier that that won't work in certain areas. Why not? What is it that is SO unique about one particular area that makes it so unreasonable to just have EVERYONE go to the station, even if it means going past the scene? You can rationalize all kinds of excuses about earlier patient contact, etc. MANY MANY MANY large geographical areas with volunteer-based EMS do JUST that! What is so different about Bradford County. I'll shut up (for now ) But PLEASE, just SOME ONE be brave enough to suggest and try it.
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Post by Chris VanDruff on Jan 21, 2005 18:34:01 GMT -5
Hey Kim maybe your right. Hopefully after our meeting tonight somethings will get resolved anyway. Good luck with the HEADS.
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911Mom
Full Member
Welcome to the real world!
Posts: 60
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Post by 911Mom on Jan 21, 2005 22:46:58 GMT -5
After reading all these posts I just wanted to express a couple of thoughts. As far as going to the station for every calll, that may make sense in some situations ( living within a couple of blocks from the garage is one) but to drive 3 miles in the opposite direction of a call that is one mile from my residence is ridiculous. Not to mention the ones who do get to the garage in record time then have to wait for me to get there only to retrace the route I used to get there. My opinion and thoughts only. Also if I hear the scene is not safe, PSP enroute or anything else that makes the scene sound dangerous, I'm not going near it until it is safe. And if by mistake I end up in front of where ever it is I am going to either keep driving by or back up real fast. It's common sense, if other people want to risk their hides to go in then so be it, at least there will be one person safe to clean up the mess. Todays world is too wacked to chance it, friends kill friends and family kill family. All the protocols in the world won't keep you safe, common sense will. These are my thoughts and opinions only.
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Post by Chris VanDruff on Jan 22, 2005 8:49:12 GMT -5
well said Sue. Just wanted to fill eveyone in real fast on the meeting last night. It was a very productive meeting I thought. As long as things play out. We have decided no matter where you are if it comes out as an unsafe/unsecure scene we will all meet at the garage. One person will take EMS command on a call wichever EMT gets there first. Command will ask for an ops Freq and everyone else will stay off the air. Man this stuff all sounds familiar huh. Some other changes have been made this is all on paper its only as good as the people who enforce it. I shall do my best. thanks for posting I printed every post and took them to the meeting and also got the protocals out. One quick statement o0n the protocols 100' for staging according to the protocols tech 2 was more than 100' and was still to close. she followed protocol. anyway im done talk to yall later. thanks.
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Post by Medic13 on Jan 22, 2005 12:58:10 GMT -5
Glad to hear the meeting went well. It's good that all issues were brought up, and it sounds like everybody agreed to work together. On a final note... Although the responder you mentioned staged 100' feet away, the protocol says "100' or more". I interpret this to mean that 100' is the absolute closest, and if the situation requires more distance, (as this one clearly did), more space should be allowed for proper safety. Also note 1-b of section 102-D: "Do not enter environments that have not been determined to be secure or that have been determined unsafe". Again, the way I interpret this is that if a suspect (ANYBODY from the scene is a suspect at this point), is close enough to you to walk over and chat, you're in an unsafe environment. The scene isn't just inside the house, it's wherever the involved people are. If the scene moves, so do you. As far as responding to the scene... I agree with Sue, sorta. In rural areas, it doesn't always make sense to go to the garage (this is for EMT's and FR's only. I see absolutely no practical reason for the trend of drivers going to the scene to continue). If a responder doesn't plan on going to the garage, my opinion is that it would be better to meet the rig enroute, with the exception of a cardiac arrest (Even then, we should be assessing "why", and keeping scene safety in mind at all times). I'm awfully skeptical of entering any scene alone, regardless of dispatch information. Just my $.02 though. I'm glad that this thread assisted in turning a bad situation into a learning experience.
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Post by flash97 on Jan 22, 2005 14:04:42 GMT -5
This post goes out to 911 guy, So what your telling me as a an EMT , If I have a QRS call one mile from my home, and I have My jump kit with the supplies, I should drive 10 miles to my firestation to get the rescue truck, then drive 10 miles back to where the call is, that is insane!!!! I could be helping a patient in less than 5 minutes, but your suggesting that I go out of my way to make it a 30 minute wait until patient is helped, out of the question, what is the point of EMERGENCY CARE , the patient might as well be written off in that scenario.
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