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Post by 911wacker on Jan 22, 2005 17:28:21 GMT -5
One quick statement o0n the protocols 100' for staging according to the protocols tech 2 was more than 100' and was still to close. she followed protocol. Common sense should have kicked in when she could SEE the residence and told her, "gee self if I can see them, they can see me". And we all know if they can see you, they can harm you. A standard DEER rifle will kill at 500 + yards, especially in the hands of some fine redneck hunters we have in Bradford County!! What about the point people approached them? They should have left the scene until PSP arrived, they made the decision to stay and placed all of your people in danger. I just want to say that I'm glad you are trying to move forward Chris, but you have a long road considering the people who are and have been leading have no clue.Nothing is foolproof, even after Police agencies get on scene, they may not be truely safe. I'm sure Dr. Focker can back me up on this one. He and I were working with B. McLinko one day and told a scene was safe, but when we arrived things were still unstable. We arrived to find PD out front of the residence with a man at gunpoint, but still not hand cuffed or restrined and as we entered the house we could still smell fresh gunpowder from the several shots fired. At the same time, other officers were still "clearing" the house we were entering. Afterwards I seriously considered getting myself a balistic vest, and still may someday when I can afford it.
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9Wacker1
Full Member
Wacker - and proud of it!
Posts: 54
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Post by 9Wacker1 on Jan 23, 2005 18:48:40 GMT -5
I agree that we are moving forward and yes, it will take a lot of work, education, in-house enforcement, etc. But I feel from our very active members that they understand (some of whom where there that night) and they are going to work on making us all safer and smarter. And this may be a different thread, but I'm going to bring it up here because of 911Wacker's comment: If we feel we "might need it" - then shouldn't it be a priority investment (no pun intended)? And what does everyone think about ballistic protection in EMS? Good or bad or we just shouldn't be there? I'm curious, not criticizing. (If someone feels that this should be another discussion, go ahead and move it. I'd really like to hear people's thoughts.)
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 23, 2005 19:40:12 GMT -5
If we feel we "might need it" - then shouldn't it be a priority investment (no pun intended)? And what does everyone think about ballistic protection in EMS? Good or bad or we just shouldn't be there? I'm curious, not criticizing. If I had $500 to spend on one, I would have gotten it already. Much to my dismay, we at Memorial do not get a uniform allowance so I would have to encure the cost myself at 100%. But thats my cross to bare, the hospital would never buy them for us unless heaven forbid someone get shot..........
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Post by Medic13 on Jan 24, 2005 7:27:17 GMT -5
Yeah, after the situation Scott mentioned, a few things ran through my head as far as personal safety. But like Scott, the idea of paying upwards of $500 for a vest wasn't all that appealing... along with the fact that no vest will protect me from the most common weapons in this county, and thus the ones that I'll probably be up against god forbid anything happens. I'll be far better off just relying on my gut when responding and entering the scene. When it comes to personal safety, we're allowed to be biased. If something looks or smells fishy, don't take the chance. If only PSP could be a little more available when we need them, things would be a heck of a lot safer in my opinion. On top of that, why is it that they need a "real" reason to respond at our request? It's awfully hard to explain ourselves over the air with the HIPPA laws breathing down our necks. I dunno... just a concern.
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911Mom
Full Member
Welcome to the real world!
Posts: 60
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Post by 911Mom on Jan 24, 2005 10:48:38 GMT -5
My thoughts on ballistic vests are they are very expensive compared to the amount of safety they provide. Yes they cover the main body but as March 31st 2004 proved, that doesn't always mean you are safe. Best bet for safety is if the scenes not safe, don't go in.
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 24, 2005 15:16:20 GMT -5
Best bet for safety is if the scenes not safe, don't go in. I do agree, but the scene is not always safe when we enter even after being told it is. This would provide us an added layer of protection, specially if we got the "puncture resistant" model.
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Post by Greg Jelliff on Jan 25, 2005 7:34:36 GMT -5
Well, I've refrained from responding long enough. It seems there are a lot of you who spend a great deal of time listening to your radio and scanners then jump on here and arm chair quarter back incidents on this forum. Get the facts first!!
I was the first on the scene at the first incident with Ridgebury Fire - QRS. I actually drove past the scene - No lights or sirens and surveyed the residence. I noted nothing unusual, I went to the next house turned around and parked up the road from the house out of sight. I had asked if PSP were responding and any knowledge of weapons from dispatch while enroute - if you listened to the Fire freq. I walked toward the house when an occupant came out, I motioned for him to come to me and from a distance inquired about scene safety.
The family indicated that the individual was agitated, and he did not want any help. With encouragement he agreed to speak with me. Our concern was that he could access a weapon and we asked that the family secure them so I could speak with him. While this was going on PSP spoke with the family on the phone and they agreed (the family) to take the patient to a hospital by POV, so PSP cancelled themselves. I wanted to speak with the patient before they cancelled to make sure there weren't any concerns. At no time was I uncomfortable or felt I was in danger - just being cautious. Having been shot at while responding to an incident I take scene safety serious!
As for the second incident I was not there and did not here it on the radio and will not comment. If one were part of the incident and felt there were scene safety issues then they need to address them within their organization or if need be file a complaint with the DOH.
Greg Jelliff RN, CCRN, PHRN Chief Ridgebury Volunteer Fire Company
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Hoyt3
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by Hoyt3 on Jan 27, 2005 2:14:44 GMT -5
I listened to that call that night. I'll be the first one to say im not gonna jump on anybodies decisions because i wasn't there. however one thing i would have been agitated by was the fact that our wonderful yet archacially slow troopers refused to send another agency especially since NYSP has a Wellsburg car and more than likely the Sheriff's office from Shemung county had a South car workin that night SOMEONE could have gotten there. I would have asked PSP why not, yes i know it is across state borders but permission of authority can be granted to cross state lines in an emergent situation. just athought is all. and Ballsitic vests can be ahd for much less that 500 bucks if you wanna go that route while most of them will stand up to most ahdgun rounds none will stand up to a centerfire rifle round. althoug i do like the stab vest idea. keep safe everyone
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Post by spike13 on Jan 28, 2005 17:06:16 GMT -5
Anybody that wasnt there doesnt need to add to the already confussing situation, Im sure anyone that responded was only there to help and altho I wasnt there, I know who was and theres always the risk of injury wheather its an auto accident or this situation, the law is the law and they responded like they were told and police should have been there never the less, I wont go any further except to say , keep it professional and be glad you have the people that care about doing what they do, Alot of people read this and if it gets uguly so does the profession.
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Post by TourniquetTom on Jan 28, 2005 18:26:09 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I have the pleasure of working with 9-Tech-1 at his "day job" and have heard his version of the events that happened that night. I have also directed some of the members of our local EMS (Yates County, NY) to this sight to view the opinions of all who have posted. Unfortunately 9-Tech-1 is unable to get to this sight to view and respond so I printed all the posts and took them to work for him to read today. He composed a response and requested that I post it here for all to read. From 9-Tech-1, Greetings from Penn Yan, NY!! Over the past week I have recieved comments from all over the upstate New York area. Not one has been about Ridgebury's 2 calls. All have been very negative about our region and the Fire and EMS personnel in particular. The internet is truly a double edged sword! Because of this site we have revealed our shortcomings to everyone in computerland. I have heard just about every negative comment you can think of. Most often I hear how "unprofessional" Bradford County people are, and how glad they are to not have to provide mutual aide with the likes of some of those who have posted on this site. Yes, there have been some constructive comments here, but most of it has been not only negative but blatantly ignorant. I will not single out and respond to those of you that posted in a less than professional manner, you know who you are and should hang your head in shame as your comments can be read by anyone with an internet connection. To those of you that came to our defense we at REMS thank you! We all have calls that go well and we all have calls we wish had gone better. Hindsight is truly 20/20! I for one will never second guess a call I was not on because I am smart enough not to do that. I do agree there should be a meeting of the "Powers That Be" in Bradford County. It should address the shameful way the people here cut down their fellow responders. From Ithaca to Cortland, Penn Yan and beyond fellow EMS and Fire Dept.'s are looking at us in shock and disbelief. Mike Drake 9-Tech-1
I will make sure Mike is aware of any new posts. Thank You All!! Tourniquet Tom
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Post by Medic13 on Jan 29, 2005 19:48:26 GMT -5
Well, not to stir the pot, but since I commented before, I should probably step up to the plate. I don't believe this thread was out of line, as most of the posts were based upon the story from a Ridgebury crewmember who stated that the call was full of mistakes and blamed himself along with several of his colleagues. I, for one, don't make an opinion until I hear the story from someone on scene. Given that there are conflicting stories from crewmembers who were there, my opinion on the scene safety issue will have to be neutral for now. As for the radio traffic issue I mentioned, though, I'm sticking to my guns.
Do emergency services in other areas frown upon Bradford county? I dunno... they may, but I haven't heard anything personally. If so, that's unfortunate. Does this board make the county look bad? Well, sort of. If it was used for it's intended purpose, I think it would be a great asset. There's no doubt that many of these threads go from potentially helpful to nothing but mudslinging. Maybe things would be better off if problems with specific calls were just brought up with the cheif, captain, or manager of the dept in question. Then, just maybe after both sides have had a chance to work on the issue, it can be brought up in the group. Just an opinion. I might take heat from this ...be easy, I'm new to the group ;D
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Post by 911wacker on Jan 30, 2005 20:05:49 GMT -5
I have heard just about every negative comment you can think of. Most often I hear how "unprofessional" Bradford County people are, and how glad they are to not have to provide mutual aide with the likes of some of those who have posted on this site. First off, I would like to rebut some of your statements since you make it sound like Bradford County responders are a bunch of fools. They are not, people who think that there aren't thousands of websites just like this one are severely mistaken. This website is a tool, for people to learn, vent or just plain have fun. We are by no means unique in the fact that we have our own, there are thousands out in "webland" just like this one that are far worse with slander and rude comments. As far as "not wanting to run mutial aide with them clowns" goes, just because those upstate NY people don't have a website doesn't mean they don't say the same shit about people in their own county. I have been around, yes even in upsate NY where I am from and have traveled extensivly for training's etc., and it is no differrent up there then it is here. Every fire station or ambulance garage tells stories or jokes about one of the "other" agencies that they routinely mutial aide with like they are a bunch of clowns!! It is a nature of the beast, and you cannot begin to deny that it doesn't happen. This website is a tool for ALL of those who use it, from those who do not post and only read to those who help "feed the fire" and foster discussion. Everyone who uses this board or others just like it LEARN something. You can go back through any of the threads on this board started by some pissed off responder and see some really good points and discussion that eventually comes of a hasty moment where, yes someone was put on the spot for doing something less than acceptable, even myself. What is the "real" point you are trying to make? Is it that your agency is the topic of this discussion and that you feel embarrassed? In any event, none of these problems or comments are isolated to Bradford County in any way, shape or form!! Shame on you for trying to isolate us from anyone else.
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9Wacker1
Full Member
Wacker - and proud of it!
Posts: 54
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Post by 9Wacker1 on Jan 31, 2005 21:11:28 GMT -5
I've got to admit - there's been interesting discussion on this topic. Thanks to those of you who shared your experiences and offered constructive advice and really showed your care and concern. Some of you have had some rational and valid points. This event (the scene and our division meeting) helped show me the value of teamwork, experience, and shoring up our weak points. Personally, I've tried to rearrange some thinking processes. I am also proud to be serving with the crew I am and in the community I am. Over time I hope I can encourage some rookie with my experience as I have been encouraged, but until then, I'll just keep learning.
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Post by canton1 on Feb 1, 2005 4:09:13 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I have the pleasure of working with 9-Tech-1 at his "day job" and have heard his version of the events that happened that night. I have also directed some of the members of our local EMS (Yates County, NY) to this sight to view the opinions of all who have posted. Unfortunately 9-Tech-1 is unable to get to this sight to view and respond so I printed all the posts and took them to work for him to read today. He composed a response and requested that I post it here for all to read. From 9-Tech-1, Greetings from Penn Yan, NY!! Over the past week I have recieved comments from all over the upstate New York area. Not one has been about Ridgebury's 2 calls. All have been very negative about our region and the Fire and EMS personnel in particular. The internet is truly a double edged sword! Because of this site we have revealed our shortcomings to everyone in computerland. I have heard just about every negative comment you can think of. Most often I hear how "unprofessional" Bradford County people are, and how glad they are to not have to provide mutual aide with the likes of some of those who have posted on this site. Yes, there have been some constructive comments here, but most of it has been not only negative but blatantly ignorant. I will not single out and respond to those of you that posted in a less than professional manner, you know who you are and should hang your head in shame as your comments can be read by anyone with an internet connection. To those of you that came to our defense we at REMS thank you! We all have calls that go well and we all have calls we wish had gone better. Hindsight is truly 20/20! I for one will never second guess a call I was not on because I am smart enough not to do that. I do agree there should be a meeting of the "Powers That Be" in Bradford County. It should address the shameful way the people here cut down their fellow responders. From Ithaca to Cortland, Penn Yan and beyond fellow EMS and Fire Dept.'s are looking at us in shock and disbelief. Mike Drake 9-Tech-1 I will make sure Mike is aware of any new posts. Thank You All!! Tourniquet Tom I am just a little confused about this entire this that is above. 1. I have talked with several from NY State and have not heard that they do not respond, oh wait these are the ones that already work with us. a. I personally do not care what someone thinks if they already have NOTHING to do with us. b. If they do not work with us, how do they know how we operate on a scene?? 2. I am not negative about "your region"!! a. Your region is part of OUR county and I am here for the entire county. b. I am looking at the OVERALL safety of our responders and learning. 3. I have put things on this board that have maybe hurt some feelings "MY OWN GUYS INCLUDED" but, If it helps make someone think a little and it saves a life I really dont care. I know that is bad, but I would be proud to say I saved a life and did not get someone killed. 4. Is it really about being smart enough to not post here when you know some thing went wrong and you can educate someone. To me and I guess it may be just me but I think it is about admiting that you made a mistake and living up to it. 5. We all have calls that go good and ones that go bad. Should we not learn from them BOTH?? 6. If you think there should be a meeting of the POWERS why not MAKE it happen. I know it is tough and maybe it is in the works but it needs to happen. I did not trash anyone in particular. It may end up appearing that I did a agency but it was the situation that I was talking about. If you think that ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Years ago, Canton had a shooting that the Fire Chief and the EMS Captain went right into the scene and started working on the Pt. when they decided to look up and seen the SHOOTER standing there watching them with the GUN in his hand!! Let me tell you, Things changed in OUR REGION. We had all kinds of people ridiculing us, but it may save a life int he future.9Wacker1---says it all I've got to admit - there's been interesting discussion on this topic. Thanks to those of you who shared your experiences and offered constructive advice and really showed your care and concern. Some of you have had some rational and valid points. This event (the scene and our division meeting) helped show me the value of teamwork, experience, and shoring up our weak points. Personally, I've tried to rearrange some thinking processes. I am also proud to be serving with the crew I am and in the community I am. Over time I hope I can encourage some rookie with my experience as I have been encouraged, but until then, I'll just keep learning. Last but not least--The internet shows out short comings!----Ever looked at FIREHOUSE? There is departments there every day that shows they have done something wrong. Every single site that I have looked at the talks about responders and things we do has stuff that makes us look less than perfect. You are right it is a double edged sword, why not turn it over and use the other side once in a while. Tell about the success stories that you have. OK--Off my soap box--May partner says I have to stop typing Stacy : quit typing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stacy : i mean it Stacy : stop
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Post by 911wacker on Feb 1, 2005 15:44:18 GMT -5
All have been very negative about our region and the Fire and EMS personnel in particular. People only see and hear what they want to see and hear, if they focus on the negative, all they are going to see and culture are negative thoughts. Even after a few days have past, I am still not getting your point!! A few of your own people have commented in great detail no less, and admitted that mistakes were made. And they also stated that they have learned, and that your corp has learned!! Improvements and discussion has begun................... What is so negative about that? You see this REALLY is a LEARNING TOOL!! Your own people have admitted that in their own words, like the rest of us have in the past about other topics.One must learn to READ everything on a thread, then take everything WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!! If you want to see real unproffesional discusions, go to any number of forums, some are listed below for your ease of searching.www.firehouse.comwww.thewatchdesk.com/forum
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