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Post by canton1 on Mar 1, 2006 11:11:07 GMT -5
WOW, what a great post. I will be back to get you all going........
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Post by Robert Repasky on Mar 1, 2006 11:47:38 GMT -5
Yes Don, I agree Department 22 has come a very long way. Scott, in all honesty, you should apologize to Don, it wasn't department 22 with Cars calling nor was it Dept. 22 screaming about the lights being out on the truck..... Doesn’t the truck still role down the street without the red lights going? I can see a problem if the headlights didn't work and it was nighttime, which could be a problem. Don, I don't see the need for Fire Police to call in for a fire they're responding to. I can see them call in if it was a request for Fire Police only, other than that, they shouldn't need to call in responding as well as line officers don't need to call in. It all comes down to self-discipline by the department. One way to do this is to ask the county to give you a tape recording of a recent incident, of course you have to provide the tapes, and play it at your next meeting or training. Critique it; let everyone hear some of the nonsense on the air. You may be surprised. Un-needed radio traffic has always been a pet peeve of mine and you can ask anyone in my department. I'm not saying we don't have problems from time to time, but I am very proud to say that Department 12 is very radio conscious when it comes down to it. We have 3 Chiefs on the air responding and apparatus, that's it. If a Chief doesn't come on the air, a Captain may call the County and tell them they're responding, but most of the time it’s not until they get on scene and assume command do you hear them. When we're done, IC calls the whole department in service, returning, etc.... not each apparatus calling in to say they're returning or at station. We all make mistakes, but the key is to learn by those mistakes. I really like this topic and glad it was started. I like the ideas of the dispatchers calling out the apparatus for mutual-aid departments. As chairman of the 911 committee, I’m putting that on the agenda for the next meeting so we can discuss it. We’ll keep you posted.
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Post by PSPFIREMARSHAL on Mar 1, 2006 12:55:05 GMT -5
I agree with a little bit of what everyone is saying. I would disagree about not having line officers and fire police call in. I believe they should call in responding, but call once and then stay off the radio unless they have more information. I think this is important so you know who is responding. It may not be a problem in some areas with more population or where you have a populated area and have FF that are cross members and you don't have to worry about manpower issues (ie. the valley or towanda areas) where Mutual aid may be close by. but for us in Ulster, if you don't have manpower responding and we have to call mutual aid, it is going to be awile for them to arrive. I personnally don't want to wait until someone arrives on scene and then realizes you need more help. This is the case not only for fire situations, but also rescue applications. If there is a situation where the comm center or the officers think there is an over use of radios then they need to address it at that point.
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Post by firedept on Mar 1, 2006 23:36:13 GMT -5
I dont agree with the lights ordeal your saying to me that if your red lights dont work going to a call then how are you supposed to put the fire out or get the community help. So your trying to tell me that if your red lights dont work then are you actually responding to an emergency?
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Post by FIREFIGHTER16 on Mar 2, 2006 1:01:30 GMT -5
i do agree with the county stating on dispatch for mutual aid departments which truck that department should take. but i dont agree with not letting your officers respond. im sorry if i am the ic i want to know what officers i have coming and which ones i dont have coming.
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Post by 911wacker on Mar 2, 2006 6:36:43 GMT -5
My mistake, the post should have read:
Many departments need to look at their policy's and adjust accordingly with regards to radio traffic during multi-agency responses.
While they are not the only offenders of this issue, I too beleive that maybe they would benefit from the suggestion made here of a critique after the incident with a tape from the actual incident. Then maybe they would actually understand what I meant. Officers are not only responsible for enforcing their own policy's, but also charged with LEADING BY EXAMPLE! While I will acknowledge that some improvement has been made, there is still much left to gain within easy reach. Nobody needs to hear chatter about anything except that chief whoever or truck whatever is responding or on scene.......period. Mutual aide units should be fully staffed when responding to another district, so you can assume that when they arrive it will be a functional piece with appropriate manpower. This issue should be discussed at a later time, now with the task at hand here:
With regards to the box alarms and those of you who are apposed to it.........Can you please explain why you think this is a bad idea besides the fact of "this is the way we have always done it and we don't need to change it". I think that those of us in favor have cited some very good points, I would like to discuss the points of those not in favor so that maybe we can learn something more that we may be missing.
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Post by flamethrower on Mar 2, 2006 15:21:36 GMT -5
Easy my brothers. Some very good points have been made here for us to learn from and hopefully foster some new changes. As with anything else, changing this policy will meet much opposition on more than one front I suspect. The end result IMHO will be worth the fruit of those labors. The system of box alarms has seen little change since its implamentation, and as with any proccess sometimes minor adjustments may be needed to "fine tune" the process.
Please open your minds and evaluate the proposal on its merritt. I can see no reason that this would not be a workable idea.
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Post by chief58 on Mar 3, 2006 1:10:57 GMT -5
Just to put my 2 cents in, here in Sullivan County , the County will dispatch all the Station's on the box and it is for our information that we know what is coming and if a piece doesn't get out The county will let's us know that some piece didn't get out and what are our wishes to do next If we all did our home work we would have that on the box like maybe we want 4 more Tanker's okay just tell the County send me 4 more tanker's or maybe 4 more brush truck's what we have done on our cards is add a tanker task force at the bottom it has up to 8 or 9 tanker's the we have placed in order by location on each box and it can be what you want the same goes for brush truck's or I guess we could do a engine task force like for LDH its not hard it only takes a little time to set down with all the officer's of your company and put it together and guess what then all of the officer's know what is coming because they help make it happen and the other thing they do is let say we had a call and I went on the radio and said Chief 58 responding the County would say Chief 58 responding to and give the location of the call and any other info. for it and then we had Capt 58 resounding the county would say nothing for them because the Chief had resounded and then Engine 58 resounding they would repeat Engine 58 resounding and any other Apts that resounded but no other person, its works all we have to do is listen just my two cents and we have been using box card for a long time 15 to 20 years Chief 58 Mildred, PA
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Post by canton1 on Mar 4, 2006 18:36:51 GMT -5
Well, Well, Well,
This is and has always been one of the hottest topics on the board. I dont see why we need to announce on dispatch each and every truck that is due to respond. Each department should have a book that tell that.
I know in the case of Canton we do not want a specific truck no do we care what you call it. As in the case with Liberty---Our box calls for them to bring a engine---They never do, they respond thier tanker to ur scenes because the tanker has what we want---LDH and a GOOD Pump. THat is all we care. Call it what ever you want we want a pump and hose.. It woudl be a pain for a dispatcher to anounce to us that we want specific trucks. I think there is times it woudl be nice but it seems like a lot of work and looking for a dispatcher to do. If a department wants to list a specific truck then I think we COULD dispatch it as that. God, I am ever confused about what I want.
Calling out-----BLAH BLAH BLAH
I love fire police--believe it or not NO REASON TO CALL OUT FOR REGULAR FIRES CALL OUT FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL CALLS ONLY IF YOU HAVE TO CALL OUT WHY DO YOU HAVE TO 10 FROM THE SAME DEPARTMENT CALL TO THE SAME CALL Why cant you just call out on channel 2 or only the first one use the responding channel.
Cars on the RADIO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO only use the radio if you are first on scene or you respond on channel 2
THis is both radio and box alarms------why does everyone have to use channel 1 to talk on when going to a call. FOr 100 years we did not have repeators. Use Channel 2 for god sake. Form portable to portable you can talk a couple miles, From Mobile to Mobile you can talk over 5---why use the repeator
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Post by 911wacker on Mar 4, 2006 21:39:33 GMT -5
1) Each department should have a book that tells that. 2) I think there is times it would be nice but it seems like a lot of work and looking for a dispatcher to do. If a department wants to list a specific truck then I think we COULD dispatch it as that. 3) God, I am ever confused about what I want. 1) This is true but your assumption relies on 2 things. One that the people actually take the time to read it in the heat of the moment. Two that everybody keeps the information updated in ALL of the correct places. 2) I think it is reasonable to assume this could be done with little or no more trouble than the current system, but then agian we have had some minor issues with correct procedure already. 3) Yup, you are right!! ;D
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Post by chief58 on Mar 5, 2006 0:16:12 GMT -5
Well I will say this, Box cards made my Job easy everything I felt was need is on its way and if I need to upgrade all I have to do is tell county go to a second or third alarm and its on the way and if I need more Tankers I just tell county give me 4 more tankers and they are on the way I will say that years ago I would be standing there and trying to think who has what and not doing what I should have been doing, I will say this I didn't like them at first but they sure can get every thing that is needed and then some. In Sullivan it is our responsibility to know what is to go when called, the County has the card in front of them if you have to ask but we try to get all drivers to know what goes and sure they forget from time to time but the book is there and up to date and as I said its okay for someone to say they are responding and if I listen it lets me know who is on there way, But if the County or the OIC is talking stay off the radio until they are done. We have been trying to get to the point that we have a channel for the IC one for operations one for water supply and one for FP we are getting there but it takes some time, and we have ask that people near the station go direct and get off the repeater when resounding
Chief 58
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Post by Medic13 on Mar 5, 2006 13:47:49 GMT -5
Yeah, but if at least one person on almost every call has to ask for the location again, what's to say they'll remember which trucks to take? I've noticed that an overwhelming number of people just hear BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP, blow a load, run for the station, then don't have a clue what was said on dispatch. Just seems like a waste to have to repeat the info. Instead of the dispatcher taking the 20 extra seconds to look it up and announce it, then have to take the time to repeat it because someone didn't listen, why can't the first in station just take the 10 extra seconds to look it up and tell his own guys what to take.
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Post by Medic12 on Mar 5, 2006 15:18:23 GMT -5
I've noticed that an overwhelming number of people just hear BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP, blow a load, run for the station, then don't have a clue what was said on dispatch. lmao
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Post by GVEMS11 on Mar 5, 2006 17:55:09 GMT -5
Everyone that has said that the dispatchers shouldn't have to dispatch the apparatus assignments on the box alarm is absolutely right. Personnel should be able to respond the correct piece (and only the correct piece) on each box alarm, whether that is by knowing the assignment or taking the 10 seconds to look it up. But I think the fact that this discussion has seen so much participation is evidence that it DOESN'T indeed happen that way in reality, and that perhaps the way "its always been" isn't working as efficiently anymore.
Both sides are really based on differing ideas of efficiency. Having the dispatchers read the card and announce that "Dept 24 for an engine, Dept 1 for the aerial" can be inefficient. So too can the radio traffic (internal or external) asking for which piece is to respond, or in responding the incorrect piece and having to return for the right piece of apparatus. So I guess it comes down to which is the lesser of the two "evils". The fact that the discussion is so active is a testimony to the fact that something isn't working right under the current method, though.
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Post by flamethrower on Mar 5, 2006 18:30:42 GMT -5
The fact that the discussion is so active is a testimony to the fact that something isn't working right under the current method, though. Well siad. Now how will something be done to fix it, maybe a suggestion that we have not heard yet?? Or maybe personell need to be disciplined until the correct responses happen. What is the answer?
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