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Post by Medic13 on Mar 5, 2006 20:03:06 GMT -5
Or maybe personell need to be disciplined until the correct responses happen. Eureka! Not every department has this problem. Those that do need to fix it internally instead of trying to change things around the problem.
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24wacker1
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Can't we all just get along?
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Post by 24wacker1 on Mar 6, 2006 0:23:14 GMT -5
I have to agree that the dispatchers should be announcing the assignments for the mutual aid depts. It may be a little more radio traffic, but in the long run it will cut down on the secondary radio chatter and the trucks will get out the door faster. The driver and/or crew of the truck will not be fumbling with their box alarm book for 2-3 minutes trying to find out whether to take an engine or tanker to the scene or for coverup. I also think that in a rural box alarm the fire chiefs (in conjunction with the eoc) could set up a fill site assignment. This could help avoid confusion and radio traffic. "Depts. 24, 9 1 engine, 1 tanker to the scene dept. 17, 1 engine to fill site. And as for the radio usage. I as incident command don't need to hear 24-cars 17, 15, 21, and 36 responding to the scene. I don't care who you are or who your father is. Unless you're a chief or a piece of apparatus, I nor the county need to hear you respond. If you like to hear your own voice, by yourself a tape recorder. I think we all know who the violators are. The same people who do it every time their pagers go off.
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NT1
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Be part of the solution not the problem.
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Post by NT1 on Mar 8, 2006 9:45:15 GMT -5
What a great thread, only one problem this has been discussed over and over. This is a department issue not a county issue. If my chief wants to hear me respond then that is what he is going to get. If he does not then I will not. It is that simple! If your chief does not want to hear who is responding that is also great. It should be up to the department and they need to enforce their policies.
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Post by flamethrower on Mar 10, 2006 21:37:42 GMT -5
Or maybe personell need to be disciplined until the correct responses happen. Eureka! Not every department has this problem. Those that do need to fix it internally instead of trying to change things around the problem. So who will discipline the departments who have chiefs with no backbone and let their people do whatever they want? And for the rest of you folks, obviously we will not be able to change anything here but we did raise some interesting insight from those people who don't sit on the chiefs mtg's and make policy. Maybe this will be re-visited agian in some indiviadual departments or at the county level for a little "review" later on. Thanks for your input and honesty.
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sta272
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member Station 2 fire rescue ems (meshoppen) member laceyville EMS
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Post by sta272 on May 9, 2006 20:20:34 GMT -5
no they shouldent depending ware the mutial aid is dispached for say towanda for franklindale they would probly allredy know what they want from dep 15 and you have to think of all the scanner wackers out their on the fire companey thell be to the station wating for tones lol
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Post by charlie foxtrot on May 10, 2006 22:45:58 GMT -5
i don't think the dispatcher should have to say what trucks are wanted , leave them to do other jobs , does it really hurt to pick up your box card books every once in awhile and study them
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Post by Rev. Percy L. Frazier 22-FP-30 on May 11, 2006 5:45:23 GMT -5
From what I can see, it's a matter of knowing ahead of time which apparatus will respond to what kind of run. I have to agree with Charlie. Proper planning prevents poor performance. As for whose chief tells them to do what when the tones drop, It's ultimately the chief's decision. Sorry, Bill, but I follow orders. Cpt. Wilcox is right. My chief tells me what to do, and I do it. No remorse, no regrets, no second thoughts, no turning back. If that rubs some people the wrong way, then so be it. It IS, after all, HIS command.
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Post by 921batt on May 11, 2006 7:10:27 GMT -5
Charlie, I agree with your statement regarding the studying of box cards' all members should know thier district and response protocols. Also keep in mind that it is the job of the dispatcher do dispatch. Someone has to know what resources are available, big picture here. My advice is to follow the direction of the dispatcher don't second guess them because there could be other jobs out that you don't know about. If there is a problem with dispatch address it after the incident. And most important....... only the incident commander shall request the additional resources needed!!! To bring something to the job (additional pieces) that your company feels is needed is nothing more than FREELANCING.
I, like the rev. Percy follow orders and that is how order is maintained.
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Post by charlie foxtrot on May 11, 2006 9:36:13 GMT -5
24wacker3 i have to disagree with you when it comes to people saying there responding, they may be doing that so the boys going to the truck know who's coming to the station or to the scene , it isn't for county but maybe for there own good, i would rather know who's coming then to set in the truck waiting for someone who might not even show up, but i guess if your waiting you'll have time to reads your box cards
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24wacker1
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Can't we all just get along?
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Post by 24wacker1 on May 11, 2006 23:11:17 GMT -5
I can see where you are coming from, but (and this is just my 2 cense) I still don't believe that anything other than chiefs and trucks need to call responding to a mutual aid assignment. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't care what individuals are coming to the party unless they're a special unit(i.e.: fire marshall, forrest fire warden, ect.). I as the ic on scene may need to relay some pretty critical information to incoming units or the county. Maybe a fill site assignment or apparatus positioning or entrapment. The list can go on and on. For an example I'll use a call with the LDH taskforce. You have a three alarm structure fire and call in the taskforce. We all know that when the taskforce is called in, we have a large scale incident going on here. Communication is critical. The ic is going to have his hands pretty full trying to minimize the cluster. He is going to have to relay to the taskforce where the water supply is when they are inbound and how to get there, but he can't do that because every time he keys the mic.......36car2, 36car5, 36car7, and 36car9 walk all over him. In dept. 24 all personel drive to the station unless they have to pass the scene first with the exception of the white helmets. In a mutual aid assignment how many firefighters have to pass the scene to get to their own station? My guess is not very many. So if everybody goes to the station, why do they need to call responding over the air when the air is already clustered. Responding over the air doesn't get you there any faster. And if the rig doesn't roll without a full crew, then who cares who is coming. You still have to wait for them whether they call responding or not. Keep in mind that I'm looking at this as mutual aid calls only. If you want your cars responding on the air to your own calls then please, go ahead. I just think that the incident command should be making the call of what responds and not the officer of the responding department. Remember guys that we are all in this together and we all need to accomplish the same task: take care of the situation and make the job of the ic as easy as possible. OFF MY SOAPBOX
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Post by Rev. Percy L. Frazier 22-FP-30 on May 12, 2006 6:22:23 GMT -5
With all due respect, Bill, isn't that why the I.C. directs all of his coms to a separate channel for ops? If a unit from any department identifies him/herself as "responding" on that channel, then he/she should be reprimanded. Just a thought.
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Post by charlie foxtrot on May 12, 2006 8:13:37 GMT -5
im just curious then if you don't like the radio traffic and want to know who's coming then what is your protocol for how many minutes you must wait before the truck rolls??
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Post by Rev. Percy L. Frazier 22-FP-30 on May 13, 2006 5:40:28 GMT -5
Indeed, Charlie. As I recall, we discussed this briefly in Advanced Fire Police School as well. If everyone blows by the station in their P.O.V.'s, who's gonna man the apparatus? It's probably become blatantly obvious that I don't know a great deal about the fire service. Most of what I do know I picked up from my father, who was a line officer with Avis Boro V.F.D. for many years, and the Clinton County Civil Defense Director. If I make a statement that is a bit out-of-line, or just plain wrong, I ask that you would be patient with me. I'm trying to learn all I can so that I can help the department that I serve in the most productive and efficient way, and the best way I know to do that is to come here and listen to you folks talk.
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Post by Medic13 on May 14, 2006 15:25:29 GMT -5
Hmmm, Ok, so to those who think everyone and their brother should be on the radio just so you know everyone and their brother is responding... how do you propose we fix the radio traffic issue? The most common thing I hear supporting cars and FP's on the air is "but it's only an extra 2 seconds". Yeah, right! We all know darn well it's never just an extra 2 seconds. Chief - "Bradford, Chief1 is responding, could I get that location again" Bradford - "You're responding at 00:00, Billyjoe road, box 555, 2.5mi from Bobbyjoe Rd " C - "OK, is that the Jones residence" B - "Thats correct" C - "OK Bradford, I know where that is" Lt - "Bradford, Lt6 responding" B - "Lt6 responding at 00:01" Lt - "Bradford, could I get a better location on that residence" B - "Billyjoe road, box 555, the Jones residence, 2.5mi from Bobbyjoe Rd" Lt - "Bradford, I don't know where that is, I need better directions" B - "Standby" C - "Lt6 this is Chief1" Lt - "Chief1, go ahead this is Lt6" C - "It's the old Williams residence" Lt - "Is it down the road from John's place" C - "No, it's right past where the old mill was" Lt - "Ok, so it's near where that barn fire was 7 years ago" C - "Yeah, that's it" Lt - "I'm responding from my in-laws, so I'll be an extra 43.7 seconds" C - "OK, that's fine, I'm just getting off the toilet now anyway" Cap - "Bradford, Captain4 is responding. I'm not familiar with that residence, could you give me better directions" ........then multiply this by the 30 or so officers and apparatus that are dispatched on a box alarm, and it shouldn't be a surprise that the frequency is so clogged with stupid traffic that important information is cut or walked over entirely. I'm not saying all 30 or so officers and apparatus do this, but nobody can deny that this and similar unnecessary conversations happen on just about every call that a number of departments are dispatched for. Not to mention that every person, officer, car, or FP, think they need to be acknowledged by county, or they call and call and call until they're acknowledged. Officers, yes... cars and FP's, definitely not, unless they're first on scene, and they better have a scene report. So I ask the question again. If the existing units (that do have a legitamite reason) can't use the radios responsibly, how will we fix the problem by allowing more people (who don't have a reason) to talk on the radio? Whatever happened to the days of just going to the station and being placed where you're needed?
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Post by charlie foxtrot on May 14, 2006 20:30:55 GMT -5
why do people think everybody has to be acknowledged, only the first officer responding should be any one responding after him is only talking to a radio with the hopes someone from there own staion is listening, if you don't know where your going how hard would it be to say "lt1 to chief1 go to channel 2" use other channels then primary ones i thought that is what there were there for, but i still believe it helps by knowing who's coming then sitting and wondering, just my thoughts
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